Summary

• Solving the $1M “Anonymous Fan” Gap: We recap the Solution Series challenge where sports execs had to “claw back” a hypothetical £1M in lost revenue by turning anonymous viewers into known, actionable data points.
• Baller League’s Retention Play: Harry Hess explains how a league less than two years old is outperforming legacy sports in the under-34 demographic by utilizing personalities like IShowSpeed and “honest,” small-sided football.
• The Death of the “Arm’s Length” Rights Deal: Why the traditional model of “I sell the rights, you broadcast them” is failing. We explore why Joint Ventures (JVs) are the only way niche and premium sports can survive.
• Legacy vs. New-Gen Commonalities: Despite the tech gap, why Wisden’s Patreon strategy and Baller League’s Twitch-first approach are actually chasing the exact same data points.
• The “Chaos Card” Reality: How real-world disruptions—from budget cuts to rivals stealing IP—force rights holders to pivot from “reach-based” thinking to “community-led” retention.
• Multi-Platform Fluidity: A look at why the future isn’t binary (YouTube vs. TV). We discuss why fans now live across “grey areas” and why non-exclusive, creator-distributed deals are becoming the new standard.

Show Notes

• How fan engagement actually generates revenue.
• We asked sports execs to ditch social media. Here’s what happened.

Transcription

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Welcome to The Attention Shift, a podcast where sports media gets debated like a VAR decision.

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Passionately, chaotically, and with none of us fully agreeing on the outcome, right?

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Okay, so we’re here with The Attention Shift podcast.

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Special edition tonight at the Solution Series event in Mayfair, London.

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The Solution Series event tonight has brought together a group of sports media execs

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who’ve been set a number of different challenges to ultimately try and answer

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how do you identify the anonymous fan?

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I’m joined tonight by co-conspirators Lee and Joe from The Attention Shift podcast,

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and Harry Hess from Baller League. Thanks for joining us, Harry.

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Thank you very much for having me, guys.

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So to kick off, and please be gentle, what did you think of the Solution Series?

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Well, look, I mean, first and foremost, I really felt like I used my brain,

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which was, you know, it’s a lot to be said compared to other events I have been to.

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Not throwing any shade at anyone.

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Other events are available.

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The other events are available.

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But yeah, I felt it was compelling and it was fast-moving.

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It was really, really interesting for me to link up with people

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that I wouldn’t necessarily share these ideas with,

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and especially if we’re looking to push fans down a certain funnel,

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to engage with, i.e. cricket, which is far more traditional sport than Baller League,

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which is less than two years old.

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It was fascinating for me to discuss with people in the industry

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how we approach these different challenges that you guys set.

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What were the main points of commonality that came up when you were chatting?

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Because you’re addressing a similar problem,

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but you’re coming at it from different angles.

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And I think that was what I was surprised about,

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is that the challenge is obviously the same,

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but the approach is really similar, right?

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Is it the channels that are different, though?

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When you say the approach is similar,

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is it like you’re the YouTube Twitch first

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and cricket has more of a legacy approach, maybe, too?

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Exactly, but we’re all trying to get to the same data point.

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YouTube gives you X data that’s really valuable

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that you can take to partners and showcase.

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And then we really want to know more about that fandom

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and more about that certain demographic

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that we’re really trying to tap into.

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And the challenge is the same, right?

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Traditional challenge of sport is the same challenge.

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How you go about it is slightly different,

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and how you kind of circle around and circumvent

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that kind of data you get from the platforms versus that…

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I was talking to guys from Wisden,

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and they were talking about their Patreon channel

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and how successful that’s been,

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and that’s not something that we’re looking at at the moment,

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but it’s totally understandable that they are, right?

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So it was fascinating to come at a similar challenge

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in a kind of really different way

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but try and end up at the same goal.

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And what for you is the key?

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Is it the quality of that data?

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Whether you’re an ECB or you’re a Wisden or you’re Baller League,

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what’s the thing that’s really going to move the needle for you?

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Is it the amount of data?

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Is it the fact that it’s not joined up or it’s not connected?

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What is this anonymous fan problem?

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And how do we start joining things together?

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Yeah, and I think that’s the ultimate challenge we all face, right?

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Because I think at the start of your night here,

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we gave a hypothetical situation

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that there was over a million in revenue being missed out by the…

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I’ve forgotten their name, London Lightning.

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And how do we claw that back?

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And if you look at the in-depth data you can extract from a fan nowadays,

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getting there is a really, really difficult path, right?

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Because the trust levels and the…

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If you’re approaching it from a sport that’s been played for 200 years

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versus a sport that’s been played for two years,

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how are you bridging that gap?

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Are you utilising the personalities that we’ve got involved

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because they’ve already have very trusted audiences that follow them?

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What is that metric then?

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Obviously, I guess you’re a commercial business like all businesses are.

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Ultimately, you’re trying to get more sponsorship or media revenue or revenues.

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As you said, you’re a newbie league.

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Is there key metrics that you take to advertisers, sponsors,

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that you really think you can harness now?

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And then is there some that you feel like,

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if I had this, that would answer some of that question?

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Yeah, I think one of the key metrics that we can boast at the moment

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is our audience demographic

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and the amount of viewers that we’re driving for the under 34ers, right?

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We are really captivating in their millions the under 34 audience

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and that’s evident with every match that we play

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and evident if you came down to Baller League in season one,

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you could see the amount of people wearing angry chin shirts

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and really supporting United.

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And it’s evident that that demographic is really important to us

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and it’s important that we then showcase that, right?

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Because that is ultimately a demographic

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that a lot of brands are chasing and want to engage.

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So how did you apply what you know in this situation here

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when you’ve got rights holders that don’t work

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and aren’t distributed in the way that you do it?

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There was a couple of the challenges that really resonated with me

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and that we face as a new business,

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which is how do you push the millions of fans

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that you’re attracting down the funnel to become loyal and retention?

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We’ve got very strong retention rate with our viewership

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that we get from the platforms,

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but then how do you convert into that loyal fan base

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that’s going to stick around for decades?

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Is that something that you’ve been learning?

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Absolutely, 100%.

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And that was what I found really interesting

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was their approach to those graduated audiences

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that they’ve had for decades

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and how they’re still retaining them,

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how they’re still keeping their interest

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and how they can face one of your chaos cards, for example.

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I think they’re cutting the budget in half.

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I was like, OK.

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When you start, that’s perfectly normal, right?

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But it was interesting throwing those chaos cards

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in when we had the different scenarios as well.

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Some got some more gentle ones than others.

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One I threw in, it was basically like,

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your rivals come up with the same idea as you,

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what are you going to do?

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And the answer I got back, which I knew I would get was,

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oh yeah, that was a better idea anyway.

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We got there first.

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But it is interesting because these are,

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yeah, we’ve made those things up,

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but there are real life things that happen.

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There’s always something,

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especially when you work in the world of live,

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that’s going to pop up and catch you when you least expect it.

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Absolutely.

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In terms of the fans that you know,

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I mean, obviously, Baller League,

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I went to season one in the UK,

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we just finished season two.

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How have you seen that evolve across those seasons?

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And of course, you’ve got the US launching,

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which is a different market in and of itself.

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How are you looking at the data

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and how you know those fans?

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How are you evolving those?

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Are you looking to, is it a completely new fan

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that you’re looking to reach in the US,

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or are you going to try and migrate some across?

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Well, you know, I can see

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that some of our audience demographic

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has shown interest from the US naturally

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in some of our…

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ASI’s the president of the league, right?

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And Speed has come over

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and been part of our league as well.

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And there’s a natural crossover

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between those two audiences.

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So, you know, we look to take advantage of that,

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for sure.

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Is it because of World Cup year help as well?

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World Cup year is by design, you know?

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Exactly, yeah, that’s right.

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There’s a natural interest,

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growing interest in the sport of football in the US.

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But, you know,

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Baller League is a small-sided football.

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Small-sided football is the most

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played game on the planet.

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Also, it’s like professional teams

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at a youth level.

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And Man United pioneered this

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well in youth football.

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Small-sided games is ultimately how they’ve

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learned skills of players.

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So actually, it happens from a grassroots level.

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So obviously, when you graduate,

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you then go to 11 ASI.

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It does.

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I mean, you know, we’ve all played more

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small-sided football than 11-sided football, right?

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Every kid in the playground plays it, right?

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Exactly, yeah.

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And we had loads of Premier League players

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come down to Baller League these last two seasons.

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And I remember at Langa, for example,

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sat there and said,

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this is the football that I played growing up.

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The football I love.

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I love the physicality of it.

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I love the speed of it.

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Your touch has to be spot on.

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You know, it’s…

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It’s honest.

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Honest football, isn’t it?

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It’s honest football.

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It’s exciting football.

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It’s fast-paced.

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It’s insanely high skill.

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And, you know, a bunch of our players

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were in Premier League academies, right?

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But perhaps they suited the small-sided game

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way more than they did the 11-sided.

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It’s a totally different game.

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A totally different game.

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But it’s one that’s very exciting

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and clearly attracts a big audience.

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And we’re not surprised because it’s

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the most played game on the planet.

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Is there anything you’re going to take away

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tonight with you that makes you think

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about something a little bit differently

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when you go to work tomorrow?

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A slightly different viewpoint or a perspective?

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Definitely.

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And that’s testament to the team that I was on

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and the way that they were approaching

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the challenges of fandom

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and how you bridge that gap between

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being an anonymous fan to being a known fan.

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Actually, what does that look like?

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What’s that data point that switches that?

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When do you become a known fan from an anonymous fan?

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And then what do you do with them when you know them?

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Exactly.

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There’s got to be another onward journey from that.

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It’s not enough just to know them.

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That’s not the end point.

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Interesting.

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Cool.

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Well, thank you for joining us.

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Thank you very much.

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I appreciate it.

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Thank you.

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I enjoyed it.

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Here’s some of the buzz.

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I think everybody’s quite engaged.

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We’ve got our second guest now who’s attended

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the Solution Series event tonight and we’ve got Naveed.

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Hi, Naveed.

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Hi, Jack.

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Tell us a little bit about what you do

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and who you were sat with tonight.

241
00:10:32.840 –> 00:10:34.780
So I was sat with a really diverse group.

242
00:10:34.860 –> 00:10:36.400
There was people from the media,

243
00:10:36.680 –> 00:10:38.620
the content side of things and rights holders.

244
00:10:38.700 –> 00:10:41.380
So we had a couple of different rights holders,

245
00:10:41.700 –> 00:10:44.280
Formula One, Supertry

246
00:10:44.280 –> 00:10:47.080
and then I’m from broadcast background

247
00:10:47.080 –> 00:10:49.000
and you’ve got Wisdom as well.

248
00:10:49.020 –> 00:10:50.740
So you kind of cover most spaces there.

249
00:10:50.740 –> 00:10:54.620
And so what was the challenge when you were talking about

250
00:10:54.620 –> 00:10:56.360
the fictional team, London Lightning

251
00:10:56.360 –> 00:10:58.380
and you were looking at fans

252
00:10:58.380 –> 00:11:00.200
and how you gather those fans

253
00:11:00.200 –> 00:11:01.640
and how you get to know them

254
00:11:01.640 –> 00:11:03.240
and how you join all of that data together.

255
00:11:03.320 –> 00:11:04.040
What came up?

256
00:11:04.520 –> 00:11:06.920
The strength of it all was that we all came from different directions.

257
00:11:07.920 –> 00:11:09.360
That was also the challenge, I guess,

258
00:11:09.380 –> 00:11:10.900
because everyone’s got a different priority.

259
00:11:12.740 –> 00:11:14.040
So once you kind of,

260
00:11:14.060 –> 00:11:16.380
originally you come into it from your kind of background

261
00:11:16.380 –> 00:11:18.860
and then you get the idea

262
00:11:18.860 –> 00:11:20.500
and the sense of the thinking

263
00:11:20.500 –> 00:11:22.400
of how others come from the problem.

264
00:11:22.840 –> 00:11:24.840
From my background, you deal with rights holders,

265
00:11:25.280 –> 00:11:26.500
you understand what they want

266
00:11:26.500 –> 00:11:28.820
but with this, you actually understood

267
00:11:28.820 –> 00:11:30.320
their thinking processes perhaps

268
00:11:30.320 –> 00:11:32.460
because you were in that meeting before they come to

269
00:11:32.460 –> 00:11:34.800
say a broadcaster and similarly

270
00:11:34.800 –> 00:11:36.240
to a digital organisation.

271
00:11:36.580 –> 00:11:38.920
So you come from a sky horse racing background

272
00:11:38.920 –> 00:11:40.560
working on the broadcast side.

273
00:11:40.840 –> 00:11:42.320
What perspective did that give you

274
00:11:42.320 –> 00:11:44.140
and what was interesting from that perspective

275
00:11:44.140 –> 00:11:46.640
compared to the rights holder like Formula One and Supertry?

276
00:11:46.640 –> 00:11:48.640
The funny thing about rights holders now,

277
00:11:48.780 –> 00:11:51.180
in horse racing, horse racing television,

278
00:11:51.540 –> 00:11:53.080
the rights holders and the broadcasters

279
00:11:53.080 –> 00:11:54.020
are often in the same,

280
00:11:54.540 –> 00:11:56.100
well, there’s joint ventures,

281
00:11:56.160 –> 00:11:57.560
they come together as a partnership

282
00:11:57.560 –> 00:11:59.960
and that is probably one of the models

283
00:11:59.960 –> 00:12:02.020
that will work for niche sports going forward.

284
00:12:02.720 –> 00:12:04.360
That’s something which,

285
00:12:05.220 –> 00:12:07.120
almost like invested in the growth

286
00:12:07.120 –> 00:12:08.720
each other because it’s a

287
00:12:08.720 –> 00:12:10.120
joint venture rather than that.

288
00:12:10.360 –> 00:12:12.160
Almost like that arm’s length relationship

289
00:12:12.160 –> 00:12:13.640
that yes, I’m taking the content

290
00:12:13.640 –> 00:12:15.900
but I’m not necessarily got any ownership in the content.

291
00:12:16.040 –> 00:12:17.300
Yeah, because the premium rights,

292
00:12:17.700 –> 00:12:19.220
your footballs and your premier leagues

293
00:12:19.220 –> 00:12:20.800
and all the rest of it and your cricket,

294
00:12:21.760 –> 00:12:22.900
that will probably all,

295
00:12:24.020 –> 00:12:25.480
that model will rumble on

296
00:12:25.480 –> 00:12:27.360
but what about the ones that sit below that?

297
00:12:27.980 –> 00:12:29.560
So coming at it from that perspective

298
00:12:29.560 –> 00:12:31.540
but then we have Formula One, another premium

299
00:12:31.540 –> 00:12:32.860
right on our table as well.

300
00:12:33.500 –> 00:12:35.760
It kind of comes to this situation whereby

301
00:12:37.340 –> 00:12:37.780
how

302
00:12:38.360 –> 00:12:39.920
does it work for you?

303
00:12:39.980 –> 00:12:41.660
And that was what really was

304
00:12:41.660 –> 00:12:43.560
interesting in terms of your fans

305
00:12:43.560 –> 00:12:45.980
but you can all learn from each other how you get.

306
00:12:46.300 –> 00:12:47.560
I’m interested in what you said about

307
00:12:47.560 –> 00:12:48.960
this new model going forward,

308
00:12:49.440 –> 00:12:51.920
this kind of joint venture approach because historically

309
00:12:52.800 –> 00:12:53.700
just a straight

310
00:12:53.700 –> 00:12:55.600
broadcast relationship, there wouldn’t be much

311
00:12:55.600 –> 00:12:57.720
sharing of that data so you wouldn’t really

312
00:12:57.720 –> 00:12:59.140
know about the fans but actually

313
00:12:59.490 –> 00:13:01.760
if broadcaster and rights holder are

314
00:13:01.760 –> 00:13:03.260
much closer, in theory,

315
00:13:03.760 –> 00:13:05.140
is the more information shared?

316
00:13:05.480 –> 00:13:06.380
In theory.

317
00:13:08.640 –> 00:13:08.920
But

318
00:13:08.920 –> 00:13:11.240
yeah, but that’s where I think

319
00:13:11.240 –> 00:13:12.840
it probably has to go

320
00:13:12.840 –> 00:13:15.840
because there’s so many sports, there’s so many

321
00:13:15.840 –> 00:13:17.060
access points,

322
00:13:17.280 –> 00:13:18.540
how many distribution models,

323
00:13:19.140 –> 00:13:20.480
how are you going to stand out?

324
00:13:20.780 –> 00:13:22.880
We’ve seen a lot more like the Apple F1 deal,

325
00:13:23.460 –> 00:13:24.840
ESPN buy or stake

326
00:13:24.840 –> 00:13:25.440
in NFL,

327
00:13:26.060 –> 00:13:29.180
if you don’t own a stake in a sport

328
00:13:29.180 –> 00:13:30.380
that you’re trying to promote,

329
00:13:30.940 –> 00:13:32.940
then where’s that value in that relationship?

330
00:13:33.320 –> 00:13:34.940
And I guess what’s interesting

331
00:13:34.940 –> 00:13:36.700
like F1 is obviously

332
00:13:36.700 –> 00:13:39.060
I guess a much more bigger name than SuperTry,

333
00:13:39.420 –> 00:13:40.760
obviously you come from a different

334
00:13:40.760 –> 00:13:41.240
perspective.

335
00:13:42.480 –> 00:13:44.840
Was there some different thinking that you go actually

336
00:13:44.840 –> 00:13:46.820
that you said you approached it from different angles?

337
00:13:47.260 –> 00:13:48.940
What was the one that stood out to you?

338
00:13:49.060 –> 00:13:50.700
Like was there something you went, oh that, I didn’t

339
00:13:50.700 –> 00:13:51.440
expect that from you.

340
00:13:52.280 –> 00:13:54.780
There were a couple of questions we struggled with and

341
00:13:54.780 –> 00:13:56.840
some of them we actually, we nailed it

342
00:13:56.840 –> 00:13:57.420
really quickly.

343
00:13:58.280 –> 00:14:01.040
And I think it’s when it became

344
00:14:01.040 –> 00:14:02.680
kind of more, and again this is

345
00:14:02.680 –> 00:14:04.960
possibly all of our backgrounds, media rights or

346
00:14:04.960 –> 00:14:06.600
it was all quite media focused.

347
00:14:06.880 –> 00:14:09.120
When it became more of an in-person, an event

348
00:14:09.120 –> 00:14:11.020
based thing, that was where maybe

349
00:14:11.020 –> 00:14:12.900
you know, but that was just with the backgrounds

350
00:14:12.900 –> 00:14:14.980
that was where maybe there wasn’t the bridge that we had

351
00:14:14.980 –> 00:14:16.120
with some of the other events.

352
00:14:16.480 –> 00:14:19.020
So obviously tonight we set up

353
00:14:19.020 –> 00:14:20.660
what the subject matter was

354
00:14:20.660 –> 00:14:22.460
and the fictitious team.

355
00:14:22.980 –> 00:14:24.640
If you could choose a problem

356
00:14:24.640 –> 00:14:26.800
to solve in the next solution series,

357
00:14:27.620 –> 00:14:28.920
what would you choose?

358
00:14:30.000 –> 00:14:31.020
I think one of the things

359
00:14:31.020 –> 00:14:33.100
is that broadcast has always been a really wide

360
00:14:33.100 –> 00:14:35.600
funnel, you’re selling kind of, you know, the moment,

361
00:14:36.580 –> 00:14:37.420
the thrill of the live,

362
00:14:37.520 –> 00:14:39.020
that’s always been the traditional room.

363
00:14:39.460 –> 00:14:41.400
So therefore that’s a collective experience

364
00:14:41.400 –> 00:14:43.100
and we’ll still generally

365
00:14:43.720 –> 00:14:45.320
It was still reach, it was still reach.

366
00:14:45.900 –> 00:14:47.440
But it would be good

367
00:14:47.440 –> 00:14:49.260
to know your cohorts, who are

368
00:14:49.260 –> 00:14:51.280
these people, or get more data

369
00:14:51.280 –> 00:14:53.200
on them, and then obviously when you’re

370
00:14:53.200 –> 00:14:55.380
in social media or you’re in digital or

371
00:14:55.380 –> 00:14:57.540
you’re an organisation, they will go

372
00:14:57.540 –> 00:14:59.360
more specifically towards those

373
00:14:59.360 –> 00:15:01.220
cohorts. But for us you’d still want to know

374
00:15:01.220 –> 00:15:03.440
who are the cohorts who make up your

375
00:15:03.440 –> 00:15:05.220
collective. And just coming back to

376
00:15:05.220 –> 00:15:07.320
what you were saying there about the JV as well, and this

377
00:15:07.320 –> 00:15:09.060
sort of struck me a little bit, because obviously we’ve been talking about

378
00:15:09.060 –> 00:15:10.980
anonymous fan here and the anonymous fan index.

379
00:15:11.780 –> 00:15:13.160
And I guess at the moment

380
00:15:13.160 –> 00:15:15.220
when you have that relationship where ultimately

381
00:15:15.220 –> 00:15:17.220
broadcaster takes content and ultimately

382
00:15:17.220 –> 00:15:19.260
that is the thing. But I guess if you’re working

383
00:15:19.260 –> 00:15:21.540
in JV where understanding

384
00:15:21.540 –> 00:15:23.280
who the fan is was

385
00:15:23.280 –> 00:15:24.820
beneficial to both parties,

386
00:15:25.280 –> 00:15:27.300
I guess then the content we produced in a

387
00:15:27.300 –> 00:15:29.200
different way than the acquisition

388
00:15:29.200 –> 00:15:31.340
was brought into it, rather than

389
00:15:31.340 –> 00:15:33.220
it just almost be broadcast out.

390
00:15:33.620 –> 00:15:35.400
Do you think, is that where you come from when you talk about

391
00:15:35.400 –> 00:15:36.900
almost like that JV experience?

392
00:15:37.080 –> 00:15:39.280
Because that conversion essentially has a value

393
00:15:39.280 –> 00:15:39.740
to it?

394
00:15:41.700 –> 00:15:43.300
Before I’ve worked for plenty of others

395
00:15:43.300 –> 00:15:45.200
who have a much more traditional

396
00:15:46.260 –> 00:15:47.260
outlook with the rights

397
00:15:47.260 –> 00:15:48.920
holders. But I think

398
00:15:49.480 –> 00:15:51.180
generally that is the feeling, isn’t it,

399
00:15:51.280 –> 00:15:53.260
whereby, well, okay, that is going to be

400
00:15:53.260 –> 00:15:55.180
a new model that sits underneath. That

401
00:15:55.180 –> 00:15:57.460
might not be the premium model, it might not be the one that gets all the

402
00:15:57.460 –> 00:16:00.060
inches. But this is something which has to happen

403
00:16:00.060 –> 00:16:01.720
really, otherwise how does it punch

404
00:16:01.720 –> 00:16:03.820
above its weight? If you don’t do something like

405
00:16:03.820 –> 00:16:05.300
that, then

406
00:16:05.300 –> 00:16:07.140
what’s your future? What’s the alternative?

407
00:16:08.200 –> 00:16:08.640
I think

408
00:16:09.400 –> 00:16:11.680
this multi-distribution, multi-platform

409
00:16:11.680 –> 00:16:13.700
distribution, whether it’s your

410
00:16:13.700 –> 00:16:15.540
own brand or whether you’re

411
00:16:15.540 –> 00:16:17.360
Sky and you’re activating on YouTube

412
00:16:17.360 –> 00:16:19.740
or you’re partnering, like the BBC’s partnered with YouTube.

413
00:16:20.080 –> 00:16:21.700
I think really that is the

414
00:16:21.700 –> 00:16:23.320
only way that understanding

415
00:16:23.320 –> 00:16:25.500
those fans who are fluid and who live

416
00:16:25.500 –> 00:16:27.580
their sports media lives across all of those platforms.

417
00:16:28.040 –> 00:16:29.620
We’re only going to get to that stage where we know

418
00:16:29.620 –> 00:16:31.280
those fans if we do collaborate.

419
00:16:31.280 –> 00:16:33.840
I think that JV is a really interesting way to go about it.

420
00:16:34.140 –> 00:16:35.640
I think collaboration is

421
00:16:35.640 –> 00:16:37.500
a huge thing, not only the JVs, but

422
00:16:37.500 –> 00:16:39.720
other related partners.

423
00:16:40.960 –> 00:16:41.960
So it might be

424
00:16:41.960 –> 00:16:43.540
Wagering in horse racing or it

425
00:16:43.540 –> 00:16:45.500
might be your digital

426
00:16:45.500 –> 00:16:47.440
partner in another sport or

427
00:16:47.440 –> 00:16:49.440
what have you. It’s almost that sharing

428
00:16:49.440 –> 00:16:50.100
of information.

429
00:16:51.060 –> 00:16:52.500
Are you finding a lot more of that now?

430
00:16:53.340 –> 00:16:55.220
Outside of this, in your experience,

431
00:16:55.960 –> 00:16:57.220
are you finding that

432
00:16:57.220 –> 00:16:58.720
because everyone knows rights deals

433
00:16:58.720 –> 00:17:00.780
are going down and the TV money

434
00:17:00.780 –> 00:17:02.680
is not there and all the challenges

435
00:17:02.680 –> 00:17:04.579
that we talk about all the time about

436
00:17:04.579 –> 00:17:06.579
attention and declining TV

437
00:17:06.579 –> 00:17:08.640
audiences, in your conversations

438
00:17:08.640 –> 00:17:10.359
that you’re having at the moment

439
00:17:10.359 –> 00:17:12.599
in your business, what’s sticking

440
00:17:12.599 –> 00:17:14.540
out for you? Did you see those

441
00:17:14.540 –> 00:17:16.280
challenges translate here or was it

442
00:17:16.280 –> 00:17:18.460
something that you didn’t see

443
00:17:18.460 –> 00:17:20.640
get talked about today that you

444
00:17:20.640 –> 00:17:22.880
see quite commonly? Yes, rights holders are becoming more

445
00:17:22.880 –> 00:17:24.579
savvy and they’ve been savvy

446
00:17:24.579 –> 00:17:27.040
for a while but they’re becoming savvier

447
00:17:27.040 –> 00:17:29.020
and there’s more crossover

448
00:17:29.620 –> 00:17:30.820
between… You see a lot more

449
00:17:30.820 –> 00:17:32.500
non-exclusive deals now where

450
00:17:32.500 –> 00:17:34.940
yes, it will go on a broadcast channel

451
00:17:34.940 –> 00:17:36.780
but also they’ll take it

452
00:17:36.780 –> 00:17:38.700
wherever they take it next, which might be on their own digital

453
00:17:38.700 –> 00:17:40.800
channels or it might be distributed by creators.

454
00:17:41.480 –> 00:17:42.800
There’s a mixture and a multitude

455
00:17:42.800 –> 00:17:44.360
of ways of doing it now I guess. Yeah, exactly.

456
00:17:44.400 –> 00:17:46.980
What’s the outcome for anyone? What are they really after

457
00:17:46.980 –> 00:17:48.680
on the end of all of this? And then

458
00:17:48.680 –> 00:17:51.040
therefore they’ll work towards that solution.

459
00:17:51.880 –> 00:17:52.900
It can be a mixed

460
00:17:52.900 –> 00:17:54.580
model or it can be new models coming forward.

461
00:17:54.740 –> 00:17:57.020
I think in the report it said that

462
00:17:57.020 –> 00:17:58.860
people tend to be further towards

463
00:17:58.860 –> 00:18:00.760
a kind of pay for play

464
00:18:00.760 –> 00:18:03.140
with a small percentage of

465
00:18:03.980 –> 00:18:04.820
free content

466
00:18:04.820 –> 00:18:06.760
or the other way, but there’s very little in the middle.

467
00:18:07.140 –> 00:18:08.900
Maybe the middle is an opportunity, I don’t

468
00:18:08.900 –> 00:18:10.860
know, but I think now

469
00:18:10.860 –> 00:18:12.820
people will be trying all sorts really.

470
00:18:13.100 –> 00:18:15.000
Like I said, that’s for the ones sitting underneath.

471
00:18:15.680 –> 00:18:16.940
You’ve got that top tier

472
00:18:16.940 –> 00:18:19.320
and the rest. Everyone thinks it’s a binary

473
00:18:19.320 –> 00:18:21.200
model, like it’s a black and white where it’s like

474
00:18:21.200 –> 00:18:23.140
you have to do this or this and if you’re

475
00:18:23.140 –> 00:18:25.080
a new challenger league, you have

476
00:18:25.080 –> 00:18:27.040
to be on YouTube, you have to do this or if you’re a legacy

477
00:18:27.040 –> 00:18:29.080
one, you all just stick to broadcasts and

478
00:18:29.080 –> 00:18:31.160
maximise all your revenue. But I think you’re right, there’s a

479
00:18:31.160 –> 00:18:32.680
grey area where you need to do both.

480
00:18:32.820 –> 00:18:35.040
You need to cater for, like you said, those different

481
00:18:35.040 –> 00:18:37.060
segments and those different audiences across the

482
00:18:37.060 –> 00:18:38.980
board. And people will be trying different

483
00:18:38.980 –> 00:18:41.060
things because the same thing won’t work for everyone. Everyone’s got

484
00:18:41.060 –> 00:18:43.020
a different profile, you know, older

485
00:18:43.020 –> 00:18:44.880
audiences or younger ones.

486
00:18:45.760 –> 00:18:48.240
So final question then, so

487
00:18:48.240 –> 00:18:50.000
do you feel like you got out of your comfort zone

488
00:18:50.000 –> 00:18:52.020
with this format tonight in the way that we’ve

489
00:18:52.020 –> 00:18:53.840
done it and do you feel like

490
00:18:53.840 –> 00:18:55.960
did it challenge your assumptions in any way in terms of how

491
00:18:55.960 –> 00:18:58.160
you would normally have thought about a situation

492
00:18:58.160 –> 00:19:00.020
like this? Definitely, I think

493
00:19:00.020 –> 00:19:01.940
every single one of our table, they would

494
00:19:01.940 –> 00:19:03.980
have had, some of them we

495
00:19:03.980 –> 00:19:05.880
agreed on or, you know, you

496
00:19:05.880 –> 00:19:07.960
agreed with, but maybe four and six and two of the others

497
00:19:07.960 –> 00:19:09.880
I would have done differently, they would have done differently

498
00:19:09.880 –> 00:19:11.980
and so on. And that’s the really good thing about it,

499
00:19:11.980 –> 00:19:13.880
you know, I mean, like it’s

500
00:19:13.880 –> 00:19:16.300
the thinking processes, you meet

501
00:19:16.300 –> 00:19:18.220
rights holders or they meet broadcasters

502
00:19:18.220 –> 00:19:20.320
or they meet, you know, media organisations

503
00:19:20.320 –> 00:19:22.000
but you just get to think of

504
00:19:22.000 –> 00:19:24.060
that was the first thing they mentioned and that was the second

505
00:19:24.060 –> 00:19:25.940
thing they mentioned, that was the third thing they mentioned

506
00:19:25.940 –> 00:19:27.940
other done it the other way or mentioned something else.

507
00:19:27.940 –> 00:19:29.260
So that was really

508
00:19:30.940 –> 00:19:31.340
education.

509
00:19:32.180 –> 00:19:33.900
Thank you so much for your time, we really appreciate

510
00:19:33.900 –> 00:19:35.760
being here tonight. And thank you everyone

511
00:19:35.760 –> 00:19:37.960
as always, we have been the attention shift

512
00:19:37.960 –> 00:19:40.000
out and about, enjoying ourselves

513
00:19:40.000 –> 00:19:42.280
for a change, live and in

514
00:19:42.280 –> 00:19:44.520
person. Don’t forget to like, subscribe

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and if you have any questions or any abuse

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that you would like to send us,

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send it to me

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00:19:50.260 –> 00:19:52.040
hello at the attention shift dot media

519
00:19:52.040 –> 00:19:54.100
that’s hello at the attention shift dot media

520
00:19:54.100 –> 00:19:55.400
thank you, cheers guys.

521
00:19:58.080 –> 00:19:59.880
That’s it for this episode of the attention shift

522
00:19:59.880 –> 00:20:01.880
remember to like and subscribe and listen to us

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00:20:01.880 –> 00:20:04.260
next time and do let us know what you think

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00:20:04.260 –> 00:20:06.020
email us at hello at attention

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00:20:06.020 –> 00:20:07.880
shift dot media, that’s hello

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00:20:07.880 –> 00:20:09.840
at attention shift dot media, goodbye.