Summary

• The NFL Just Made Every Club a Media Company: The NFL has approved sweeping digital rights changes for all 32 clubs. Social as owned media. Highlights on TikTok. In-game second-screen content now sponsorable. And buried at the bottom, clubs can now sell original content directly to streamers. The clubs who move fastest won’t just win audiences. They’ll win the next rights cycle too.
• OpenAI Just Bought the Press That Covers It: OpenAI has acquired TBPN, a daily live tech show on track for $30 million in revenue this year. A show that previously covered OpenAI as a subject. It now sits inside their strategy org, reporting to a political operative. Editorial independence is preserved, they say. The structure says something different.
• DAZN’s World Cup Masterstroke: DAZN has launched Playmakers, a global creator programme timed perfectly to the World Cup. 83% of consumers trust creators over traditional advertising. That stat should be in every broadcaster’s boardroom. The KSI and Dagenham stream wasn’t a one-off. It was a live test of exactly this model.
• The Daily Mail Didn’t Hire Journalists to Compete With Creators: Since October 2025 the Daily Mail has hired 25 creators directly onto its payroll. They’re producing up to 20 videos a day averaging 300,000 views each. One series has 300 million views. The audience follows people, not mastheads. The Mail just built a model around that reality.
• The Publisher Crisis Nobody Wants to Admit: Facebook referrals to news sites are down 43%. X is down 46%. The distribution highways publishers relied on for a decade have collapsed. 76% are now training staff to behave like creators. Half are partnering with creators for distribution. The question isn’t whether publishers need to change. It’s whether they’ve left it too late.
• When Does a Payrolled Creator Become a Competitor?: The Daily Mail, CNN, the New York Times, all building creator talent from within. But when a payrolled creator hits 2 million personal followers, what’s stopping them from walking out the door? Ed and Jo ask the question publishers are building entire strategies around but nobody is answering yet.

Show Notes

• NFL Teams Just Got the Keys to Their Own Digital Kingdom.
• OpenAI Buys TBPN.
• DAZN Launches Playmakers, the New Global Creator Programme.
• Daily Mail Puts 25+ Creators on Payroll.
• Reddit Opens Pro Publisher Tools to All. Views Up 46%, Comments Up 48%.
• Sponcon Sports newsletter

Transcription

Jo (00:01.634)

Hello and welcome to the Attention Shift. This week, OpenAI has bought itself a podcast and Dozona the Daily Mail have both decided that creators aren’t actually the competition, they might be their future journalists. And the Reuters Institute, to put a number on what we already know, 70 % of publishers are a little bit worried about the attention moving fastest.

towards creators. We’ve got a comms heavy podcast today, haven’t we? Without further delay, you know the drill. We’ve got five stories. Coming up five minutes each, Eduardo, how are you? You ready?

Ed (00:34.745)

Very good. Thanks. Let’s go.

Jo (00:36.694)

Let’s go. So NFL, first story, it’s given all of its 32 clubs permission to become media companies. Well, we’ve seen them edging in that direction anyway. But what it actually means is that they are allowing them to do much more on their own social channels. I mean, a lot of them have been doing it by the back door anyway, but doesn’t this just show how actually a lot of leagues and rights owners

have actually been precluded from doing a lot of stuff with their own content that they really would have liked to have been doing for a lot longer.

Ed (01:12.699)

Yeah, definitely. did a bit of research a while back when I was looking at the NFL teams and what they were doing and what they were not doing just across YouTube. And there was a gap when you compared it to other teams and leagues around the world. And this explains it certainly in more detail. But like you said, to a certain degree, some have been doing this via the back door for a while now. And the reality is the NFL have realized that they can’t, effectively by holding them back and trying to control them in terms of what they could do was probably starting to impact the NFL in general.

Jo (01:40.622)

Mm.

Ed (01:40.709)

themselves so I think it’s not before time that allows them to do this kind of stuff.

Jo (01:45.57)

Yeah, and it shows how it’s not just about broadcast now. There’s two things. It shows about it’s not just about broadcast. And we all know, we say it till we’re blue in the face, broadcast is still important, but increasingly less so proportionally. You’ve got all of these other ways of communicating, of reaching audience and engaging audiences, some of whom don’t even engage with broadcast at all. So it throws into…

It throws into relief how a lot of these rights deals are actually beginning to hold back leagues and rights owners now. And there’s because there is so many different rights that are available. Even the terminology. I mean, I, you know, I used to look at rights deals back in the day and even the terminology feels not fit for purpose. lot of times these days you talk about digital rights. Well, what does that mean streaming rights? What does that mean? And

Alongside that, it does call into question this idea about exclusivity, because we always used to talk about exclusive rights in deals. But then you’ve got people who are doing exclusive broadcast deals and then exclusive streaming deals and then exclusive digital deals. Well, what does that mean? There are major contents everywhere. That’s no exclusive then, it?

Ed (02:57.209)

And also there’s this understanding now of what is a right, because I guess if you think about it from a content perspective, the rights have always been very much about the game, the match, the event in itself. now, yeah, and now obviously there’s this realisation, which we’ve been banging on about for a number of years now, that actually access is a right. And not only the access, but access to whom, where, when, at what time, those kind of things can be, I guess, cut up and used. So…

Jo (03:05.602)

Yeah, the livestock.

Ed (03:25.627)

part of doing this is that understanding that, I guess the people within the teams themselves are probably the best at working out what’s the right kind of content for the right kind of people at the right time. They’ve all been, I saw some of the Kansas City Chiefs, for instance, have employed someone who’s, think the director’s, so I think the role is director of culture and creators, whose job it is literally to work with.

Jo (03:33.869)

Hmm.

Ed (03:52.633)

these people who’ve now become the authority to lots of different micro communities. And clearly, obviously, even though it’s only been announced publicly now, clearly the NFL team knew that it was going to get over the line. The fact that the Chiefs did that and a few other teams have started doing the same now as well. Now, their understanding that there is a tremendously fragmented world, one size doesn’t fit all. And actually, the media companies that they work with, whether that’s a national level, whether that’s a local level, can still get tremendous value out of access. But at the same time,

Jo (03:56.969)

Mm-hmm.

Ed (04:22.712)

The teams need to be able to do what the teams need to be able to do too, because they’re trying to build on owned ground.

Jo (04:28.908)

Yeah, but it also feeds into the valuation of the NFL’s rights, as in at league level, right? mean, you know, rumors are they’re seeking a 58 % uplift in their deal, their annual rights fees. Moffat-Nathanson estimated that, they were looking for at least 50 % plus uplift in their next round of negotiations. And they’re bringing it forward, they’re looking to lock…

potential partners in well into the 2030s. You can only justify that uplift if you’ve got successful teams who are reaching and engaging fans. So you have to empower those teams to become those media companies and to take those digital rights and be able to unlock that value and that fandom at that local level, because the NFL can’t do it at that simultaneously at that super high level. I mean, yeah, too macro, yeah.

Ed (05:21.518)

Yeah, they’re too macro to be able to do it on their own.

Jo (05:24.524)

So, but it shows that it’s part of the value creation. It goes down to that social media manager, that culture and creator manager. They are cultivating value. And it’s quite nice to see that the NFL have acknowledged that and actually, purely not altruistically, it’s also because they need to keep justifying bigger asks for the rights. But at least it’s empowering those local teams to actually.

start creating value with their fans and also makes those people who have cultivated those communities across social media even more valuable within the whole chain. So I’m hoping that they’re getting a good nod to that.

Ed (06:04.442)

Yeah, look, an American sports franchise as well, I’ve always been really, really good at activating sponsors at a local level. Local level for them is a national level for us, right, because of the scale of it. And Alex Kopelow has been talking for quite some time about how they needed to start thinking about the content in and around the game, the long form and how they are monetizing that. he writes a really good newsletter that will get Will to put in the show notes as well if people who are watching and listening to this don’t already know Alex’s work, but…

He’s been pushing for this for some time now, so it’s interesting this has come along. It’s going to give him plenty to talk about, that’s for sure.

Jo (06:37.518)

Good stuff. Next up.

Ed (06:41.22)

Cool, right then. So we’ve done that, next one. So OpenAI, I’ve just bought a show that basically covers OpenAI. So they acquired TBPN. It’s a daily live tech talk show. was launched in March 2025 by founders John Coogan and Jodie Hayes. It averages about 70,000 viewers per episode and it was on track to generate 30 million in revenue this year, which is most from advertising. So.

Jo (07:00.44)

Mm-hmm.

Jo (07:09.166)

and

Ed (07:10.326)

It’s going to sit inside OpenAI now rather than outside like it has been doing. And it’s interesting that the world’s most powerful AI company just bought a media outlet that scrutinized it. What could possibly go wrong, Joe?

Jo (07:24.206)

Well, I’m guessing there won’t be as much scrutiny going forward. Yeah. I I heard a lot of people commentating about this and I was looking into it. Even Matt Bellany was talking about it. it was, I mean, it’s not even a massive podcast, but it’s a very focused tech bro podcast and they seem to be able to attract the big hitters. So it’s clearly essential listening in Silicon Valley amongst a certain cohort of founders. So they’ve had Zuckerberg on.

Ed (07:43.833)

Yeah.

Jo (07:54.055)

I mean, yeah, it wasn’t on track to make a huge amount of money. They’ve paid a couple of hundred million for it. That’s pocket change, I guess, for open AI. The thing that I thought was interesting, I mean, at a time when regulatory scrutiny is coming for AI, it might buy them sway with influential people. Clearly, as I said before, they managed to get the movers and the shakers onto the pod.

Ed (08:03.61)

The way they’re burning through it, yeah.

Jo (08:23.234)

They’re in the right circles. It’s a very small, very focused podcast that speaks to the right people. That’s going to benefit OpenAI when the regulatory crosshairs start honing in on them. And the other thing that struck me when I was thinking about it is, I mean, it’s basically outsourcing your PR. I mean, really, they’ve bought themselves a bit of a math piece. That’s it. It’s a PR. I mean, is this the start of people saying, do you know what, we don’t need an internal PR?

team will just go and buy a podcast in the same way that, you know, people buy YouTube channels or, I mean, it’s, be.

Ed (09:01.786)

Well, some would say it’s the same reason that we’d start to do a podcast talk about the things that interest us, right? We’re just not open AI burning three billions and we’ve obviously a number of things going on that not exactly, not everyone in the world loves some of the things that we’re doing. look, I think on one hand you look at it and go, it makes total sense this, like they’re not bothered about scale with this, they’re bothered about reaching the right people and supposedly this podcast is reaching the right people. So it’s a B2B podcast at the end of the day and it.

Jo (09:06.112)

Exactly. Everybody got a podcast.

Jo (09:24.131)

Good.

Ed (09:29.658)

it gets to everything they need to get to. Now, I’d imagine they don’t need it to go any bigger than that because they’re ultimately influencing the mindset of the people they need to. So in the grand scheme of things, for most people, couple of hundred million is a lot of money. For them, with their burn, like you say, it’s pocket change. And ultimately, if it reaches and influences the people that they need it to…

Jo (09:36.263)

No. It’s not scale. It’s not scale. It’s about influence.

Ed (09:54.346)

It makes total sense for them. It is just very, interesting. Just in the world of brands, how they are realizing more and more now that they can actually own the media narrative rather than relying perhaps on the way they would have used media to advertise even in the recent past. And you see more and more doing that now.

Jo (10:12.27)

Yeah, but it makes the notion of editorial independence a little bit grayer, doesn’t it? Editorial independence be damned when you own the podcast that formerly used to question some of your motives. mean, really, would Zuckerberg go onto there now, given that those two presenters now report to the board of OpenAI? I don’t know. Anyway.

Ed (10:38.211)

Yeah, but I mean, but after… No!

Jo (10:38.414)

I don’t suppose this will be the last time we see something like this, whether it’s an open AI level. I mean, again, we’ve just been talking about the NFL. Be interesting to see whether other big entities, FIFA, acquire a podcast as their mouthpiece, not beyond the realms of possibility.

Ed (10:52.963)

Yeah. Well, this certainly opens up that door for that kind of thinking, right? But also back on your point as well, would Zuckerberg go on? If Zuckerberg feels like he can get something out of it, he’ll go on that podcast. We’ve been proved this before when supposedly some of the tech leaders don’t like each other and then all of sudden they do something together. It’s almost like a little bit like blowing away since back in the day when the pretend battle that they were having. Are these tech leaders really falling out or actually does it just suit them to keep their…

Jo (10:57.538)

Yeah

Ed (11:21.657)

name in the narrative constantly that to their investors it looks like they are the leaders. I’m massively cynical about most of these things that go on these days.

Jo (11:23.873)

Yes.

Jo (11:30.638)

You are quite right to be, as am I. Anyway, next story. We couldn’t have a podcast without talking about creators, could we? I mean, hello.

Ed (11:40.319)

We’ve got a few in here now, if anyone’s thinking of leaving now, don’t! It’s all about creators from here on in.

Jo (11:44.559)

So Dazon has launched Playmakers, which is a global creator program, probably read about it in the sports trades over the last couple of weeks. So this is giving sports creators access to Dazon’s platform, events, merch, affiliate links. mean, it’s smart and interesting move by Dazon because it’s interesting. I was speaking to Dazon last week because they are joining me next week at Filstream TV Europe.

in Lisbon where you will be also Eduardo. Yeah, we’re talking about the challenges of being a sports super app within the wider ecosystem. It’s going to be a great session. You’ll enjoy it. But when I was talking to them, they were saying, you know, we can’t not embrace creators if we are going to justify the subscription cost of the zone, obviously, but also we’ve got to try and bring sports fans in and we’ve got to keep them.

Ed (12:16.523)

I shall be in the crowd listening intently making notes.

Ed (12:28.696)

Yeah, looking forward to it.

Jo (12:43.99)

And creators is a really sticky part of that. So it makes complete sense that they would launch this creator program along, you know, in and amongst all of the other initiatives and innovation that Dazon is really pushing for. Because we know, we’ve said this, know, sports fans tend to believe creators a little bit more than the broadcaster, the BBC, the streamer, whoever is, you know, is bringing them the sport.

So that level of trust and that parasocial relationship that we’ve all developed with our favorite creators over the last 10, 15 years through platforms like YouTube is now becoming really, really important to someone like Dzone who’s got to fight ever harder to justify what they do and who they are and to keep those fans on that platform.

Ed (13:30.199)

Yeah, and also like I said, the reason you do this is that you don’t just have to rely on advertising to be able to get the message across. Because look, they could go and advertise with a lot of these creators as well, but they’re going, well, we’ll give you some content in return for being part of the narrative, which effectively becomes way cheaper than if you were just going to purely advertise around it. And you’re absolutely right, these creators, as we keep saying, have now become the authority to…

lots and lots of audiences and I know there’ll be people now watching or listening to this saying no no no I don’t watch those creators like it’s not if you’re saying that it’s not for you this is not about you they’re trying to reach the people that they can’t reach at the moment not the one they already reach the ones who can they already get in front of them it’s the ones that they can’t and that’s why you see more and more in this like said we’ve got quite a bit to come onto in this as well but we’ve seen this all over the and you see some of the stuff that they’ve you know they went and acquired rights to Kings League as well which is very much creator led

Jo (14:08.398)

Mm.

Jo (14:13.742)

Mm.

Jo (14:26.638)

Yeah.

Ed (14:26.937)

in terms of distributional has been certainly from the start. They did a lot of stuff around the World Cup with FIFA as well where they were we crazed well so that was a bit of a dip in the top. Sorry around the club World Cup bit of toe in the water for them to see how it would work. Obviously the case I think the other weekend where they were effectively you know they have rights in National League but they were happy for KSI to to co-stream it. They see the value from it and anyone listening from Dazones you want to give us some stats as well we’d lovingly use those stats.

Jo (14:39.064)

Mm.

Jo (14:45.025)

Yeah

Jo (14:50.574)

Mm.

Ed (14:56.137)

one of our episodes and talk about the success that you’ve seen from it as well and how you are converting, I guess, from rented ground to owned ground. How are you then thinking about how those people that you’re speaking to across these creators are then turning into subscribers? Love to see that.

Jo (15:10.446)

I mean, this is when you read into it, this is not just a campaign. Actually, this is they’re starting at foundational level with this. So they’re building this into the zones infrastructure, which I think is very telling. So it feels to me like then they’re I mean, it might change how it looks and feels, but this is something that is pretty foundational for them. They are going to have a creator strategy that is embedded into the zone, whether

KSI is streaming, Dagenham and Redbridge or not. And they’re giving them incentives, which is interesting because that will lock them in. We know how hard it is for creators, particularly if they’re starting now, not the ones that have been doing it for years, but particularly the ones that are starting now to scale and to monetize, to make a business and a job out of it. It’s bloody hard. We speak to them all the time, you and I. It’s really hard. So actually giving them an incentive and a framework is really interesting.

mean, ultimately, these creators are your journalists, your broadcasters, your pundits of the future. So actually bake them into what Dazone does and then it gets really interesting. And of course it gives you a distribution army. It gives you a creator that speaks a language that appeals to a certain demographic in a certain area and then you can scale that. It’s not just your one creator or your one pundit or your one commentator that has to try and appeal to everyone. We know that that doesn’t work anymore.

Ed (16:36.813)

Yeah, now it’s interesting. then, so actually brings us national onto the next story then, which is Daily Mail Group. So they’ve actually now got what they termed as creators on the payroll. So actually working as journalists within the organisation. So they started this back in October, 2025, but then there’s a new story that’s come out now where they start talking about some of the successes around this. Whereas instead of partnering with these creators, and let’s assume the previous story was about how

Jo (16:44.247)

Mmm.

Ed (17:05.389)

content in return for access to audiences. Daily Mail are actively paying creators to be on the payroll to effectively create content on behalf of. Which is again, another step towards that integration, but understanding that, and I guess agreeing that they talk, these creators talk in a certain kind of way and probably they’re the best people to maybe take the message forward to certain demographics.

Jo (17:08.398)

Mm.

Jo (17:29.976)

Mm.

Yeah, it’s a welcome move past the old creator slapping. I promise I won’t say that again, I say quite a lot, but this acknowledgement by publishers and broadcasters and news outlets that just doing a creator campaign is too transient. actually there’s, know, eventually you run out of creators. And when you start seeing the same ones hawking their services around, you realize that maybe they’re not actually.

as invested in what you’re trying to sell as you are. And that comes through so that inauthenticity shines through. actually bringing them in, incentivizing them more, embedding them. In the Daily Mail’s case, start teaching them a bit of journalism skills. mean, no matter what you think about Daily Mail Group as a news outlet, its roots are in traditional journalism. And a lot of creators would welcome.

a little bit more formal training in that. know, given that they’re connecting with audiences, that’s probably something they can teach more old fashioned journalists in Daily Mail group, but there is still a skill to, you know, developing a story, to articulating it in a certain way. So I’m welcoming this trend and it will come up in the next story as well. This trend of actually not just using a creator as a mouthpiece, it’s too superficial, but actually embedding them more in the same way as Dazon has done with sports.

Daily Mail Group is doing with news, bringing them in. They’ve already cut their teeth on growing and scaling audiences in digital spaces or in UGC platforms, but actually then start bringing them in and start giving them the actual solid skills. I’ve seen it happen actually with someone who used to work for a TikTok news organization. She was their sports journalist, Emma Middleton. She’s awesome. And she ended up going to work for BBC Sport and was doing some stuff on TikTok. And now they’ve taken her on board.

Jo (19:27.618)

And she does some really great stuff around sports events for their kind of younger TikTok first kind of sports journalism. And it’s absolutely the way to go because then she’s actually learning with an organization like the BBC, but she’s still using what she’s always done, what she did when she worked on TikTok and those skills, self-shooting, editing, you know, the way that she constructs and creates her comms. So I think it’s a really interesting move.

Ed (19:52.921)

And again, media has been going that way for a long, time now, that ability as an individual to be able to do all of those things yourselves. And I think when you marry that…

which is very different to how the news readers would have done it in the past. And look, they’ve seen some success as well. They’ve done one of their TikTok series, they’ve seen over 300 million views. And as we know, views can be vanity anyway, but the reality is it’s around those views. They’ve managed to get brands on board with that and they’ve monetized that. So they’re obviously seeing value from it. And I know they did a campaign as well with Primark on TikTok that generated 1.3 million views and 30,000 likes, which they were happy with as well. So it’s clearly working for them.

Big question is, so what happens when they help to train someone who’s just starting out that knows how to connect towards it but needs all of the, let’s say the skills tools to be able to do this? They build a personal following of two million and they realize they can make more money elsewhere than independent.

Jo (20:47.466)

that always been the risk with employees? You train employees and they leave? Yeah.

Ed (20:50.232)

Yeah, is there anything wrong with that? I you’ve just got to a pipeline of more coming on, right? mean, some are going to do that.

Jo (20:54.702)

Yeah, yeah. It’s no different to when presenters that used to be aligned to a certain TV channel, they were an ITV presenter or a BBC one and they hopped over to the other side and everybody would be like, ooh. I mean, it’s no different to that. And this line between journalist and creator has been getting blurred for a long while. And some say would be to, you know, it’s had a material kind of bad, a bad effect on actually the quality of journalism.

But in a way, this is a pushback and saying, no, actually, let’s bring them on board and let’s start imparting some of the knowledge that we have as a news publisher and then when we can bring the two together. And I think at a time when trust and curation, particularly in news, is gonna be sought out and valuable in amongst the sea of AI slop, actually now is the time to start doing that as a publisher, whether you’re the BBC or Daily Mail or whether you’re the Zone.

you start actually embedding with creators saying, no, we know our stuff. You can trust our voice. And this is what we’re investing in. We’re investing in these creators to deliver that to you.

Ed (22:02.22)

funny so I think I think eventually that whether it’s a journalist or a creator just we won’t even use that terminology just be like this is just how content is made down and how ultimately you connect with audiences so it feels like we’re starting to move into that space

Jo (22:10.744)

Sure. Yeah. Yeah, agree. Yeah, 100%. Agree. Okay. Well, I mean, on a related theme, we were talking about Reuters and this is something, because we’d spotted this as an emerging theme. And then as part of the research for this podcast, because, you know, contrary to popular opinion, we do actually research it, don’t we? We found it.

Ed (22:32.824)

I mean we’ve been to about 10 stories that we decided not to use this morning.

Jo (22:37.312)

Yeah, we found some some info that had been published earlier this year by the Reuters Institute about how publishers are worrying that they are going to lose their best editorial talent to the creator economy. And it’s not just in news. Again, we’ve seen Gary Lineker go off, become a creator. We’ve seen Rio Ferdinand do the same. Any number of people who used to be embedded within traditional media are chanting their arm in the creator economy.

which is a concern when you are someone like Reuters or you’re a publisher. So whilst we have spoken about potentially, you’re training up people who are gonna go off and do something elsewhere. Well, I think that is just, that’s the risk. It’s always been the risk that you train employees and they then go and join a rival company. But yes, this confidence in news publishers.

We’ve seen that reducing and eroding over time. I everybody’s got an opinion about the BBC, whether their news is biased. So I think this is perhaps almost a pushback or a hedge against that is bringing in those authentic voices into the fold as a way to stop that decline in trust. People trust people. Like I said, those parasocial relationships, they don’t necessarily trust BBC News anymore or Daily Express or…

what used to be called the masthead, I’m sure it still is in journalism circles.

Ed (24:04.139)

Yeah, mean, the two stories you’ve just done before, like Dazon and Daily Mail Group, and there’s been other recent examples as well, right? Like I said, we’d missed this originally, but then we were looking at it again as we were preparing for this. And it’s kind of like, in a lot of ways, the decisions that people have been making recently, if they’d not seen this, they probably would have backed up why they were doing what they were doing in terms of research that been conducted. Because when you start to see the…

you know, search traffic’s down to new sites. And I know there’s been a few casualties across the digital media industry because Google’s just not been driving the traffic. And also the fact that, you know, Facebook’s not been passing on the referrals and X has not been passing on the referrals. Like you’re like 33 % down globally for Google and 43 % down for Facebook and 46 % down for X, where a lot of these digital news outlets were relying on that traffic and they’ve not been getting it anymore. They’ve just had to find another way. And I think…

Jo (24:39.576)

Mm.

Yes.

Ed (25:00.821)

that realization is, like, whether the fear that creators have instilled in their audiences or not, they’re not. It’s just ultimately how media has evolved and this is a place for everyone. It’s just different than what it was before.

Jo (25:05.614)

Mm.

Jo (25:10.062)

Yeah, I think it’s been a bit of a check to the collective ego of some news publishers and sports broadcasters in the sense that, you know, for a long while, they sat at the top of the tree as the only voice or the trusted voice, the authority on bringing you news and bringing you sport. And then along come creators and take that away and

Ed (25:31.862)

Yes.

Jo (25:39.995)

I mean, goodness, without wishing to offend anybody I might have worked with in the past, you know, but I think for a long while there was this lingering sense of exceptionalism and now they’re almost being forced to acknowledge that creators have disintermediated them. And rather than becoming creators, you’ve got to find this space in the middle where you learn from creators.

how they disintermediated that relationship, how they went and scaled communities and connected with audiences that perhaps traditional publishers and broadcasts lost sight of. But then also don’t just copy them because then you just look like, you your dad dancing, you know, okay, boomer. You can’t just become a creator. But actually there is this knowledge transfer the other way that remembering what made you important in the first place as a journalism outlet or a news outlet.

or as a sports broadcaster, and then figure out how you can, you know, embody that in creators, how you can teach creators that, and find this space in the middle. Because I come back to trust and curation. Trust and curation is going to become so hotly contested and valuable in the next few years, because people are beginning to, I mean, if trust has fallen already, trust is falling, it’s plummeting at an ever faster rate now of what you can see and read and believe.

So I think there’s an opportunity.

Ed (27:09.173)

what creators have pushed publishers to think about more is deeply about is, you know, what is the voice? How can they show their audiences again that they are authentic in what they do? And how can they have a direct audience connection? think often you see media has gone down the road of talking at people where ultimately for creators, it’s always about having a conversation with people that people’s, yeah, it’s with them and that their opinions are valid too.

Jo (27:30.126)

Mm.

It’s with, yeah, it’s not talking at, it’s speaking with.

Ed (27:37.664)

And then they act on those opinions. And then there’s that, okay, that loop keeps on going. And ultimately that drives the quality of the discussion anyway, where for a long, time, we’ve just got into this mode of just keep sending, sending, sending messages, but not really caring about what’s coming back. And I think that’s where the stealing a march and we are now starting to see the content evolving again to what the expectations of the audience. Yes, we want the facts.

Jo (27:54.307)

Mm.

Ed (28:05.697)

but also we want our opinions to be heard on those facts if we agree or disagree with it.

Jo (28:12.244)

Mm, yeah, I agree. And I think this is probably one of the things when I think back to the BBC, know, the BBC for all its faults is still very much trusted globally. And this is why I think it’s really interesting their recent announcement of the partnership with YouTube that expands into sport, it expands into kids channels. They’re launching seven new kids channels on YouTube. This acknowledgement that the BBC is losing.

that reputation, that trust, that brand standing in the world because of its reluctance to move off owned and operated channels and into these spaces where creators live and into digital media. And it’s almost forced their hand, but actually it has to happen because if you are to even maintain that relevance and resonance and trust as the BBC or as Dezone or whomever else, Daily Mail, you…

you have to lean into those spaces and you’ve got to start figuring out how you show up there and articulate that trust and that value and all of that editorial that you’ve spent the last hundred years perfecting. How do you then apply it in this digital world where creators own the relationship with your audience? So yeah, mean, we’re in a transition period. I don’t think anybody’s really worked it out yet.

but it’s certainly positive direction of travel as far as I’m concerned.

Ed (29:34.977)

Well, yeah, we’ll include a link to the report in the show notes as well. know, like I because we do do some planning with this podcast as well. The reason we wanted to finish on this. Yeah, yeah. The reason we wanted to finish with this is because if you, yeah, if you look at it like, you know, this report already leans into what the NFL are now doing through building teams for media companies. It leans into where open air gone bought by narrative control. It leans into Dazon building creator armies.

Jo (29:42.542)

Can it make us journalists, Can I add journalism to my CV?

Ed (30:02.484)

Daily Mail turning journalists into influencers. It brings it all together. So look, it’s well worth a read and we will include it in the show notes if you’ve not seen it already. So Joe, we’re there. Well.

Jo (30:04.11)

you

Jo (30:12.834)

there Lequan, wrap up there Ed, you’re getting good at this.

Ed (30:16.938)

I’m not sure I can manage it again next time, but I’ll give it a go.

Jo (30:22.232)

Well, this has been the Attention Shift. And if you’ve enjoyed it, you should let us know, you know, we want to hear from you. Our email address is hello at attentionshift.media. And come on, talk to us. We want to hear what you think. And if you want to feature as a guest, let us know. And don’t forget to like and subscribe. I’ve been Jo Redfern and he has been.

Ed (30:41.611)

Ad Abes.

Do you want them to be the different to the ones that we’ve just done as conversational?

Jo (42:37.102)

Yeah.

Jo (42:56.728)

So what do want us to do? Just read those bullet points?

Ed (43:15.477)

Is it supposed to be what, 30 seconds is?

Ed (43:23.551)

don’t mind Joe, don’t mind doing NFL or Dizon, I don’t mind either way which one I do. Alright.

Jo (43:26.254)

We could have a go each.

Jo (43:38.616)

Fly start.

Ed (43:39.541)

Yeah, go for it.

Jo (43:42.03)

So the NFL has just approved a package of digital rights for all its 32 clubs. So social as owned media, they’re allowed to stream their, are they allowed to stream their games with creators? Is this part of it? Sorry.

Ed (43:54.197)

Hmmmm

Jo (43:58.337)

in-game second-stream content.

Ed (44:00.401)

Yeah, it’s not the games.

Jo (44:03.158)

Okay. right. Clubs can now sell original content directly to streamers. Okay.

Ed (44:04.968)

There’s no way any fellow signing off on that.

Ed (44:14.644)

Yeah, work directly is fine. They do want them to do, they do want to do, they want to work with creators in and around what’s going in the games. They’re just not going to give them live game rights. They might give them clips and things like that and data and, but they’re not, yeah.

Jo (44:26.439)

Mm. Mm. Mm. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jo (44:40.536)

I’ll try and add a little bit. A bit much to read and add a little bit, it’s fine, don’t worry.

Jo (44:51.31)

Okay, so the NFL has just opened up many more digital rights for all of its 32 clubs, allowing them to take social as owned media. We know that algorithmic reach is one of the few tools that can really build value at that individual club level. And so clubs can now work directly with creators for everything around the main game. All of this, of course, is happening right before the NFL renegotiates its entire media deal.

It’s an acknowledgement actually that they can’t control everything. They can give some rights back to their individual clubs and they can allow them to build value at that local level that isn’t going to cannibalize at that macro NFL league level. So this is a positive move and those clubs who move fastest, they’re going to win audiences and they’re really going to help bolster that NFL league valuation.

Ed (45:49.241)

I’m not sure I’m going to beat Joe so eloquently.

Jo (45:52.736)

Yeah.

Ed (45:56.829)

Okay then. Ready? Cool. So the NFL has just made a big change around how the teams are able to use content around game days. So they’ve approved a package of rights, which means that the 32 clubs, who to a certain degree of doing a bit of been doing a… God, let me start again.

Jo (46:21.07)

We should have an outtakes episode.

Ed (46:22.964)

Christ. Will’s already said he’s got loads of ones of me. Will said he’s going to do a no context ex account of me just saying shit in outtakes. I’ll try again. Right, I’m going now. So the NFL have now just approved a different usage for NFL teams of content in and around game days. To a certain degree, the teams have been doing this for a little while anyway, where they’ve been…

creating unique programming that they’ve been distributing via their own channels and via creators but the NFL have given them the tick and the approval to be able to do this. This is going to give them much more algorithmic reach around how they’re accessing audiences and the clubs can now work directly around everything that is the main game so it should be really really interesting especially when the NFL are about to renegotiate their entire media deal for the next cycle.

Yours was better.

Jo (47:22.549)

Nice.

Jo (47:44.537)

Dozone have got an army of creators working for them now and they’ve activated it just in time for World Cup, so the timing’s pretty deliberate. They’ve launched Playmakers, which is their global creator program, giving creators access to Dozone’s platform and events and affiliate links and merchandise. Really smart because Dozone are acknowledging that actually consumers and audiences trust creators more over traditional advertising or traditional punditry. So they’re bringing them in-house.

and they’re giving them the opportunity to make DoZone as a platform really sticky for its consumers. So it’s a positive thing.

Ed (48:38.492)

think… no I’ll start again. It’s alright. Ready?

I Dazon could be one of the real winners come the end of the World Cup 2026 this year. Let me explain why. They’ve just launched Playmakers, which is their global creator program. It’s giving sports creators access to their platform and their content, but also there’s a monetization angle around it too. They dipped a toe in the water around the club World Cup and now they’re really going for it. And the timing feels perfect where they’re going to build up to this summer. 83 % of consumers trust creators over traditional advertising.

the statistic that we’ve been supplied here. This World Cup time is deliberate and it’s going to be really interesting what they do with it.

Ed (49:40.018)

any creativity out of it, feel like it seeped out my body.

Ed (49:46.952)

Yeah, it was that barbecue, barbecue ad at Salford Keys.

Ed (50:00.373)

Yeah, you’ve got all five there, haven’t you? What do you want to do? Sorry, I was going to say, what do want to do next week? Because Joe and I are away from Sunday to Wednesday in Lisbon.

Ed (50:14.652)

I had a chat with Will and Dan about us doing it together and they were worried that in terms of what kit we’d need and whether the audio would be right and they were like, prefer if you did it in your hotel room separately even though you’re in the same place.

Jo (50:19.822)

Mm.

Jo (50:28.174)

You

Jo (50:33.87)

Mm.

Ed (50:38.974)

We’re just not necessarily gonna have the same gear, where this is the only thing, because obviously we’re both gonna have laptops. I’m trying to think what I could carry.

Jo (50:50.658)

Yeah.

Yeah, I’ve got one.

Ed (50:54.292)

I’m not gonna be in the office, you’re not gonna see me, is the only problem. Maybe do that then. I can always then try it. Or tell me what I need and I can order it. Oh wait a minute, I have got a pocket mic. I’ve got one of these.

Jo (51:13.198)

Yeah, that’s what I’ve got.

Ed (51:16.072)

All right, so I just need to test it, I guess.

Jo (51:18.37)

Make sure they’re charged.

Ed (51:20.914)

Yeah, make sure the charge, that’s easy enough. do have a pocket mark and I guess I could probably take my webcam with me rather than use the camera that’s on the laptop.

Ed (51:35.444)

The other pull, yeah.

Ed (51:39.912)

The only problem with, I mean, the only thing we could probably get is just when we do it, because how many of your sessions are on Monday, Joe?

Jo (51:48.078)

good question.

Jo (51:53.744)

One, I’ve got one Monday, one Tuesday.

Ed (51:58.194)

It’s because the only thing is, I guess to give them time to edit, we probably need to be doing it latest Tuesday morning, don’t we? If we do it, if we did it early.

Ed (52:08.306)

Yeah.

Jo (52:08.398)

Mm.

Ed (52:10.877)

But also I’m just there as a viewer. Joe’s got actual stuff to do there at the event as well. So I’m just mindful of Joe’s time over mine.

Ed (52:34.867)

I’ll be going all on it, mate, don’t worry about that.

Jo (52:35.224)

Yeah, I will be.

Ed (52:38.643)

I’m gonna go, for the first time in my life, I’ve not got any other, I’ve looked through the attendees, there’s not really anyone I’m going after from a lead perspective in the grand scheme of things. So I’m gonna go to most of the sessions and listen. So.

Jo (52:54.562)

We need to see Baric at some point.

Ed (52:56.766)

we definitely need to Barry, yeah yeah yeah.

Ed (53:14.737)

When do you think it’s best to record it Joe? Like I said, it’s probably a bit… It’s more for you though.

Jo (53:19.702)

Monday afternoon. Should we do Monday afternoon, Monday evening?

Ed (53:23.793)

Yeah, I’ve got Monday, well Monday I might be going to something Monday evening with Becklick who we’re doing some work with at the moment, who are based in Lisbon but he hasn’t given me any timings yet but…

Jo (53:31.885)

Right, okay.

Ed (53:39.761)

I’m even locked.

Jo (53:40.256)

It’ll be early, late afternoon because there’s some, I think, is it Monday night? There’s some drinks or something as well.

Ed (53:46.855)

How far is our hotel from the venues in here?

Jo (53:50.907)

I think it’s a 20 minute walk, half an hour walk.

Ed (53:54.043)

to back then. I did have the app on my phone somewhere.

Jo (54:03.854)

Not on Monday, no. No, I’m…

Jo (54:11.382)

Yeah, I’ve not really looked at the schedule. I’ll do it later.

Jo (54:23.478)

I can’t do Tuesday morning because I’ve got a session.

Ed (54:26.899)

Yeah, I think, like I said for Monday, er…

Jo (54:32.982)

Morning. I’m free all afternoon.

Ed (54:38.483)

even look at the schedule.

Ed (54:43.079)

I think stick it in the diary and then let’s have a look at the schedule Joe, me and you can sort of, as long as Will, you and Dan are, or whoever’s doing it has got the time free, we can then work out what window. Like said, if it’s only 20 minutes, we can, and Joe can meet, walk back, connect.

Jo (54:50.86)

Mm. Mm.

Ed (55:02.033)

Yeah.

Ed (55:07.73)

Yeah.

Ed (55:14.621)

Yeah. Okay.

Jo (55:17.282)

We could, yeah, we can take some inspiration from some of the sessions, because there’ll be something. My session on Monday is about who’s winning the sports fan. it’s, we’ve got…

Ed (55:20.034)

I’ve the agenda now.

Ed (55:30.779)

Let’s do something. Is that Barrick on that one? Alright. Yes, I saw you post on that earlier.

Jo (55:33.003)

No, I’ve got YouTube, I’ve got YouTube, Dazon, yeah, Orange, who are the telco, who’ve got obviously bundles. And then we’ve got this mainstreaming, who are the people that do all of the traffic management. But they’ve got this really interesting approach to pirate streams where they don’t shut them down. They degrade the quality. you…

Ed (55:41.682)

Yeah.

Ed (55:46.823)

Yep. Yeah, yeah.