Summary

• The £190 billion blind spot: The global sponsorship market is set to double by 2030, yet 76% of marketers admit they can’t reliably measure ROI—is this savvy brand building or just an expensive ego trip for CEOs?
• “Red Bull is not a drink”: Why the energy giant succeeded by refusing to bring the product to the people, and instead built a media empire that forced the people to come to the product.
• The “Lipstick Effect” in Rugby: Why Maybelline’s partnership with Ilona Maher proves that authentic, creator-led storytelling beats a passive logo on a bib—even if you can’t click “buy now” from the scrum.
• The “Annoyance” Metric: As digital overlays clutter the pitch, are we finally admitting that some sponsorship is actively irritating fans, and should “frustration” be a KPI?
• The billion-fan myth: How Spotify signed a massive deal with Barcelona only to discover a hollow database, and why cultural crossovers (like the Coldplay shirt) are the new currency of value.

Transcription

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Hello and welcome to this week’s edition of the Attention Shift podcast.

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Before we get into the pod, we need to talk about how the fan landscape is changing.

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According to the Financial Times, time spent on social media peaked back in 2022

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and has been falling ever since.

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But if social is in decline, how are you going to stay connected with your fans?

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That’s exactly why at Dizplai, we launched the Anonymous Fan Index.

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We brought together the leaders of sports business

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to identify the biggest gaps in fan understanding

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and a clear path for ensuring you stay connected to your audience.

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Welcome to the Attention Shift, a podcast where sports media

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gets debated like a VR decision, passionately longer than it should

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and with none of us fully agreeing on the outcome.

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Hello and welcome to the Attention Shift.

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I’m Ed Abis. I’m Jo Redfern.

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I’m Lee Rabourne. That’s a relief we’re all here.

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So today we’re going to talk about global sponsorship.

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So the global sports sponsored market projected to almost double

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from £97 billion in 2023 to £190 billion by 2030.

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Marketeers are pouring more into sponsorship than ever.

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But 76, not surprisingly, 76 percent say they can’t reliably measure ROI.

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That I call is exactly what smarter sponsorship ecosystems must bridge.

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So sports sponsors move beyond slapping sponsors on kit

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and having your brand shown on a billboard around the pitch,

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but not according to the measurements on ROI, as I mentioned earlier.

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And we’ve seen brands become content machines that integrate themselves

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directly into historic sporting moments through supplementary content.

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We’ll talk about Spotify as an example of that probably.

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The old model focused on passive logo placement,

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but we move beyond that, hopefully.

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So an example here, if we look at someone like Footers Island,

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for instance, they create content audiences want to see connecting

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with the audience they want to reach while showing off content supplies.

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And it’s a perfect example of how they’re using content investment

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to lead value and impact.

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And there’s lots of examples of that.

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A million examples of where that’s not being done properly.

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So, God, where do we kick off from there, then?

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I mean, let’s just let’s go for the headline.

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Do you want to go for the start?

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Let’s just go for the…

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Sorry, I laughed when I said it, but I was blown away about that.

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Was it 70?

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76 percent say they can’t reliably measure return

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investment for their sports sponsorships.

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I mean, well, it’s good to know we’re spending any money there, isn’t it?

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You know, if you can’t measure it, you know, why spend all your money?

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But interesting, Lloyd, like on that as well.

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Like, you know, we talked about this in a previous podcast as well.

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When we were leaders at sport the other week,

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there were a number of conversations that I had with people

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where people were saying that the sports sponsor is a real struggle at the moment.

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So I’m just trying to understand how that is being

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how it’s being projected to almost double in the next several.

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Yeah, I’m glad you don’t understand it, because who someone

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as someone who’s relatively new to the world of sport,

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it completely befuddles my brain.

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That 76 percent are saying

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they find it hard to calculate ROI, this fuzzy ROI.

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I imagine they say it anonymously.

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Yeah, they plan to increase it.

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What? That’s bad business.

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I mean, it look, I think there’s a there is some brand loyalty, right?

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I think there is, you know, if you fans do, whether rightly or wrongly,

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they do generally expect to say that if an athlete wears something

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or recommends it or an influencer wears something,

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then I think that’s plus that women’s sports sponsorship.

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You know, there’s a women’s sports fans were two times more likely

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to purchase a recommended product, for example, from a female athlete.

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So there are things that colloquially, if you like,

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people are saying that they that you’re saying it.

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But the fact, I mean, maybe they don’t publish this.

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I mean, some of this.

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But you think if if no one can measure it,

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as if you could measure it, you should be shouting it from the rooftops

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right now, right?

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And I think we’ve talked about this in the past before.

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Like you just said, that sponsors expect more in terms of, you know,

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I just you know, that your logo was seen a hundred times in the last hour

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because because it was on the show or because it wasn’t things.

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You know, we talked about it when we were talking about data

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and the fact that if you could understand your fan, you’re into that data,

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you can do much more targeted advertising and also choose your sponsors.

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We’ve done it from a club’s clubs perspective.

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But from a sponsor’s perspective,

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yeah, I just it is baffling that there’s all this money it’s going in.

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And some of it, I feel, is a bit because the CEO wants to brag about

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or get some free tickets to, you know, the F1 maybe.

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I imagine that happens quite a lot.

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Does that still happen though?

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I think it does.

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I think I think it does.

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Or don’t you take your clients?

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You know, it used to be like it used to be back in my early IT career.

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It’s like, you know, you sponsor like a rugby box at the rugby

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and you take you take clients out and you have a few beers.

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And that’s that’s where the deal would get done.

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So there was more of a closing side rather than sort of a fan buying.

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But I think from a direct consumer point of view,

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it’s crazy that in this day and age that we still

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there is still no one going out there.

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You know, some of the stats are trying to pull out again.

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It’s like, you know, what does a good campaign look like?

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Well, it should be two to one or I was like, well,

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if you can’t measure the ROI, how do you know

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you’re getting two to one ROI on this?

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I mean, what would you say has been a good ad?

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Let’s flip it up, right?

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Just get us into this.

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What would you say has been a good ad that’s made you buy something?

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It could be anywhere, like an Instagram.

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It could be anything like what is, you know, what sort of

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how does that content look like?

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And how has it got you?

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And do you go because my wife gets it’s not so responsive related then.

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No, because my wife gets Instagram shopped all the time.

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She’ll watch a video, for example, and she goes away

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and she’ll go, well, you know, it’s about some new makeup thing.

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That is basically, in essence, is a sponsored activation

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that generally is working really well.

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And if we take that as a good example, then let’s try and work

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that back to sports and if sports doing the same the same thing.

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I’m going to I’m going to answer your question with a sports example

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only because it’s something that I’ve seen on my TikTok today.

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And so it’s fresh in my mind.

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But in a way, it’s an example of what I think is a relatively

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it it makes it makes sense as a sports sponsorship.

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And it’s Maybelline sponsored the sister of Ilona Mayer

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because Olivia Mayer, because she’s cheaper.

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I mean, the three the three of them have the House of Mire.

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I was just being flippant.

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I don’t really know. I imagine probably cheaper.

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Yes. And they sponsored her to run the New York Marathon.

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Well, of course, Ilona turns up to cheer on her sister.

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So I imagine it’s probably the whole they’ve sponsored the three of them.

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Holding up signs, cheering on Livvy.

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It’s got Maybelline branding.

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I mean, you know, Ilona Mayer is famous for her red lippy

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when she’s out training.

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That to me felt quite, you know, natural, engaging.

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She’s you see that her run out on the field with red lipstick.

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She likes to get glammed up, even though she is, you know, very

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kind of body positive and talks about how beautiful her strength is.

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Her sister’s too, really engaging.

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So that for me was marathon running.

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She’s been training for it for a while.

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Maybelline nicely, sensitively, but kind of authentically

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embedded in that piece of content.

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So that struck me this morning as being something that didn’t feel

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too forced, too salesy, pretty good.

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You’re like, she’s run a marathon.

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So they’ve got the same tagline.

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Maybe she’s born with it. Maybe it’s Maybelline.

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No, no, no, no, not that I saw, but I just thought that

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that was a really good example of how they used somebody in sport.

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So interesting like that.

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But how would you measure ROI on that?

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The way you but you have like you have answered

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ultimately the sports sponsored question on that, right?

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Because you were just asking about a brand that actually you’ve

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gone and found it because it is you could always a sports sponsor

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just in a different kind of way.

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Yeah. But how would you one?

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How would you measure ROI on that?

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Well, again, I don’t know.

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I’m not a sponsorship expert and I am slightly

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fuzzy myself on how it works in sport.

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If she was wearing a QR code on her bib that says you’ve got like

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sponsor and don’t meet me now.

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Well, let’s assume she wasn’t doing that though.

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How do you measure it in terms of because there’s an obvious way

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they’ll go, they’ll go, look, if I was going to do ads on Insta,

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it would cost me X.

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Yeah. I got that much reach engagement on Insta with this.

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It was Y.

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And they’ll probably go, that was too time.

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What it would have cost me if I’d done it normally.

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That’ll be the simple way they’ll do it.

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It would be difficult for them to do any direct association

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or commercial uplift because you’re not necessarily going direct

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to buy from Maybelline.

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Well, that’s the thing, isn’t it?

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Yeah. I mean, I can you buy from Maybelline direct

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or do you actually do the other stuff?

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But the thing is, that might have increased my consideration

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the next time I’m thinking about buying a lippy, but not now.

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I didn’t press buy now on watching it.

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Something like 15 touch points with a brand before you you consider buying.

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So you’ll have sold it to Maybelline.

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He’s just kept it front of mind.

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Yeah. But I think that’s the problem is that, you know,

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you used to be able to get away with saying, you know, your brand was,

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you know, it’s 15 touch points or your logo was seeing X amount of times

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in the space of an hour and they were joking about the sponsorship costs

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and, you know, sponsoring an F1 car early.

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And like how much value does that do?

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Or actually, like in my teensy man United, as I’ve said many times,

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how many people who support watch man United play our team viewer buyers?

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You know, who’s going to buy?

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Who’s going to go out there and buy a team viewer based on that?

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You know, it’s a very niche.

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Also, it’s the same with Atlassian sponsoring Williams F1,

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which is Atlassian’s Gira, right?

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So what is that Atlassian owned Gira?

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Gira is a project management software used for software engineering.

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I don’t know, like all the people who are buying that

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are sort of connected into F1 or actually are they using it,

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like you said, to take lots of people into hospitality,

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experiences, but I honestly don’t know what they’re doing,

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but it’s a similar kind of thing as team viewer.

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Yeah, and that was the issue.

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I think that was the issue, you know, with the team view.

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I think ultimately the CEO got called out on the, you know,

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the sort of team viewer sponsorship for man United.

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So they spent a lot of money and the company was losing.

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Yeah. And actually it was bad.

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It was a bad, arguably a bad deal because it’s, you know, marketing.

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So there is bad examples of bad deals.

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I was trying in preparation for this.

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I know I was trying, I know, and that’s the thing I was trying.

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I think this is probably a nice segue into the Spotify stuff

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because it’s probably the only deal I was trying to look, do some research

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into who’s got the biggest sort of ROI in history.

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And it’s like, again, no one advertises, no one says that there’s advertising.

224
00:10:47.350 –> 00:10:50.590
You know, again, they reference things like NASCAR, you know, obviously,

225
00:10:50.630 –> 00:10:54.610
you know, you get good, again, publicly information is not done.

226
00:10:55.130 –> 00:10:58.270
The only one I could find was around women’s sports stats, you know,

227
00:10:58.350 –> 00:11:00.450
which was people likely to buy.

228
00:11:00.610 –> 00:11:04.110
And that’s just people and fans and fans says they saying 2.8

229
00:11:04.110 –> 00:11:08.370
times more likely to buy that doesn’t tell you actual sales, sales revenue.

230
00:11:08.430 –> 00:11:13.830
And I think. You know, it is, it depends on how you look at sponsorship,

231
00:11:13.830 –> 00:11:16.890
I think, and I think if we’re just talking about the sponsorship

232
00:11:16.890 –> 00:11:21.390
to give you a direct increase in sales or marketing,

233
00:11:21.530 –> 00:11:22.750
generally is quite a hard thing.

234
00:11:22.750 –> 00:11:24.210
Or do you would you put this?

235
00:11:24.410 –> 00:11:26.430
Are you putting this sponsorship into question?

236
00:11:26.590 –> 00:11:27.590
What is the ROI?

237
00:11:27.890 –> 00:11:28.750
Are we at me?

238
00:11:28.870 –> 00:11:31.370
And has it typically been valued in just sales uplift?

239
00:11:31.670 –> 00:11:34.810
Because is there may be value in sponsorship that isn’t

240
00:11:34.810 –> 00:11:37.090
such a hard metric? Yeah.

241
00:11:37.250 –> 00:11:39.110
I think it’d be difficult to argue that sports

242
00:11:39.110 –> 00:11:40.690
sponsorships not worked for Red Bull.

243
00:11:40.990 –> 00:11:43.230
No. Yeah. And they didn’t start out.

244
00:11:43.350 –> 00:11:45.910
Well, I guess how long have you been doing F1 now, Red Bull?

245
00:11:45.990 –> 00:11:47.950
Oh, God, I’m going to ask Cameron and Mark.

246
00:11:48.550 –> 00:11:48.810
Long time, though.

247
00:11:48.810 –> 00:11:50.330
But then that would imply

248
00:11:50.330 –> 00:11:53.030
that would imply something that you can’t speed run.

249
00:11:53.190 –> 00:11:54.890
Then you’ve got to invest over the long term.

250
00:11:54.910 –> 00:11:56.910
But what I was going to say is, but yes and no,

251
00:11:57.010 –> 00:11:59.450
because what I think what they have done is and obviously more likely

252
00:11:59.450 –> 00:12:03.490
now they’re coming to football in Leipzig and Leeds now as well.

253
00:12:03.570 –> 00:12:05.530
But they started out, they did.

254
00:12:06.350 –> 00:12:09.150
They created the Red Bull media house in 2007.

255
00:12:09.150 –> 00:12:10.090
It’s the extreme sports.

256
00:12:10.430 –> 00:12:11.990
They started an extreme sports, even before extreme sports,

257
00:12:12.090 –> 00:12:12.790
they did the salt box.

258
00:12:13.090 –> 00:12:14.270
Yeah. They did the airplanes.

259
00:12:14.470 –> 00:12:17.250
I think they now subsequently sold the airplane race business.

260
00:12:18.010 –> 00:12:18.870
Red Bull Air Race.

261
00:12:18.870 –> 00:12:19.610
The X Games.

262
00:12:20.530 –> 00:12:24.350
I sat there watching the soapbox stuff on some random channel.

263
00:12:24.690 –> 00:12:26.650
And it’s never, never not funny.

264
00:12:27.130 –> 00:12:28.330
Yeah. And they do it all over the world.

265
00:12:28.370 –> 00:12:30.330
So they start out doing a lot of the sponsorships like that

266
00:12:30.330 –> 00:12:33.970
and stuff that people didn’t really didn’t have a market.

267
00:12:34.230 –> 00:12:36.190
We didn’t really care about in the same kind of way.

268
00:12:36.250 –> 00:12:38.390
And then I think they cut their teeth doing those kind of things

269
00:12:38.390 –> 00:12:41.570
and realized how sponsorship worked to really, again,

270
00:12:42.030 –> 00:12:44.210
create an experience, really sort of embed themselves

271
00:12:44.210 –> 00:12:45.910
within cultural experiences.

272
00:12:46.410 –> 00:12:47.870
Then they started like, obviously, they were already

273
00:12:47.870 –> 00:12:50.250
I think they were already doing the F1 at that point,

274
00:12:50.410 –> 00:12:51.690
but then they started coming to other stuff too.

275
00:12:51.690 –> 00:12:53.150
And I think they’ve used those things.

276
00:12:53.270 –> 00:12:55.570
I said, they went to extreme sports to really mature.

277
00:12:55.890 –> 00:12:57.530
How will they activate sponsorships?

278
00:12:57.530 –> 00:12:58.350
It’s interesting, actually.

279
00:12:58.670 –> 00:12:58.970
Now, yes.

280
00:12:59.050 –> 00:13:00.670
You don’t see a lot of advertising anymore.

281
00:13:01.070 –> 00:13:02.650
I’m going to just before you say, I’m going to jump in,

282
00:13:03.210 –> 00:13:05.310
because producer Will has just sent a really interesting quote

283
00:13:05.310 –> 00:13:06.830
from the Red Bull co-founder.

284
00:13:07.150 –> 00:13:08.570
We do not bring the product to the people.

285
00:13:08.690 –> 00:13:10.110
We bring people to the product.

286
00:13:10.530 –> 00:13:12.910
We make it available to those who love our style

287
00:13:12.910 –> 00:13:15.050
and they come to us. Red Bull is not a drink.

288
00:13:15.110 –> 00:13:15.710
It’s a way of life.

289
00:13:15.970 –> 00:13:16.970
And that’s it.

290
00:13:16.970 –> 00:13:18.810
I mean, I only ever have it with vodka.

291
00:13:20.090 –> 00:13:21.070
That’s your way of life.

292
00:13:21.090 –> 00:13:22.570
So that’s a funny thing.

293
00:13:22.610 –> 00:13:23.310
It’s a rare thing.

294
00:13:23.390 –> 00:13:25.550
I knew someone who worked for Red Bull and they said,

295
00:13:25.750 –> 00:13:27.290
do you are not allowed, if you work for Red Bull,

296
00:13:27.330 –> 00:13:28.690
you are not allowed to mention vodka.

297
00:13:28.930 –> 00:13:29.130
Really?

298
00:13:29.770 –> 00:13:32.370
Yeah, they just didn’t want the brand association.

299
00:13:32.850 –> 00:13:33.950
30 years ago, vodka Red Bull.

300
00:13:34.270 –> 00:13:35.890
But I think they did kind of do that.

301
00:13:35.990 –> 00:13:38.110
And I think there was other things they were doing around,

302
00:13:38.270 –> 00:13:39.930
which is like, you know, sort of like leaving,

303
00:13:39.990 –> 00:13:41.430
you know, they’re going to universities.

304
00:13:41.710 –> 00:13:43.710
It’s kind of unrelated once a bit about the brand,

305
00:13:43.810 –> 00:13:45.350
which was they were leaving empty cans everywhere.

306
00:13:45.350 –> 00:13:47.230
Oh, they used to do it outside nightclubs and bins.

307
00:13:47.770 –> 00:13:48.370
To make it to make a little drink.

308
00:13:48.410 –> 00:13:49.530
But I think what’s interesting,

309
00:13:49.610 –> 00:13:51.070
and if you take Red Bull example, right,

310
00:13:51.090 –> 00:13:54.090
before Red Bull, the energy drink market was probably,

311
00:13:54.230 –> 00:13:55.970
what, Gatorade and Lucasade, right?

312
00:13:55.970 –> 00:13:58.370
And it was very much a standard, especially in the US.

313
00:13:58.410 –> 00:13:59.810
It was about performance, wasn’t it?

314
00:13:59.810 –> 00:14:01.650
It was all about performance and its things.

315
00:14:02.010 –> 00:14:04.590
And they really, so yeah, maybe the narrative there is,

316
00:14:04.930 –> 00:14:07.790
does it help your storytelling for your brand?

317
00:14:07.790 –> 00:14:10.470
And if you’re trying to create a presence and get known,

318
00:14:10.870 –> 00:14:12.810
it’s the same way you’d probably go over creator now,

319
00:14:12.970 –> 00:14:13.910
the creator partnership.

320
00:14:13.910 –> 00:14:16.970
They were really early to that storytelling

321
00:14:17.470 –> 00:14:19.950
as a way to embed sponsorships properly,

322
00:14:20.010 –> 00:14:20.230
weren’t they?

323
00:14:20.530 –> 00:14:21.830
With the creation of Red Bull Media House.

324
00:14:21.830 –> 00:14:23.690
Which is quite hard to measure the ROI

325
00:14:23.690 –> 00:14:25.710
apart from your year on year sales, right?

326
00:14:26.050 –> 00:14:27.610
Which is why I asked the question, you know,

327
00:14:27.610 –> 00:14:31.130
if the ROI is limited to just sales uplift,

328
00:14:31.550 –> 00:14:35.170
are we losing that value that is derived elsewhere?

329
00:14:35.430 –> 00:14:36.710
Which might be harder to track,

330
00:14:36.730 –> 00:14:38.850
but actually does compound over time.

331
00:14:39.050 –> 00:14:40.650
If we’re using Red Bull as an example,

332
00:14:40.690 –> 00:14:42.490
you would say, yes, it does compound over time.

333
00:14:42.490 –> 00:14:44.310
Because look at where they are now,

334
00:14:44.830 –> 00:14:47.330
nearly 20 years after they set up Red Bull Media.

335
00:14:48.710 –> 00:14:49.850
Also, they’ll be arguing as well

336
00:14:49.850 –> 00:14:51.910
that all of that compounding over time,

337
00:14:52.230 –> 00:14:53.810
what is the value of the business in itself?

338
00:14:54.150 –> 00:14:56.990
So the size of the sales, what is the business worth?

339
00:14:57.170 –> 00:14:58.410
I guess it depends on your objectives

340
00:14:59.790 –> 00:15:01.370
for a sponsorship, right?

341
00:15:01.370 –> 00:15:05.350
If you’re doing a small, limited run

342
00:15:05.350 –> 00:15:06.910
for either a one-off event,

343
00:15:07.050 –> 00:15:08.830
or you’re just doing like a drop of something,

344
00:15:08.830 –> 00:15:09.870
you know, like you’re just pop up

345
00:15:09.870 –> 00:15:10.850
and you’re trying to do a match,

346
00:15:10.850 –> 00:15:13.030
then you need, I would argue

347
00:15:13.030 –> 00:15:15.450
that you need some way of digitally tracking that,

348
00:15:15.450 –> 00:15:17.750
whether it’s a QR code or some activation or-

349
00:15:17.750 –> 00:15:19.050
I guess when they started doing it,

350
00:15:19.090 –> 00:15:20.030
those things didn’t exist.

351
00:15:20.250 –> 00:15:21.830
No, but I’m saying if you’re doing it now,

352
00:15:21.990 –> 00:15:24.790
you’d want some, you’d want hard metrics to prove

353
00:15:24.790 –> 00:15:26.950
that you’re getting the engagement that you want.

354
00:15:27.150 –> 00:15:28.250
You drove the sales.

355
00:15:28.450 –> 00:15:30.090
And, you know, if I was a sponsor trying to sponsor,

356
00:15:30.470 –> 00:15:33.390
let’s say it was the boat race, you know,

357
00:15:33.530 –> 00:15:34.110
Oxford, Cambridge program.

358
00:15:34.190 –> 00:15:36.970
Say you’re trying, I want to be a sponsor for that.

359
00:15:37.090 –> 00:15:38.630
It’s one-off event once a year.

360
00:15:38.670 –> 00:15:40.070
I want to see my ROI.

361
00:15:40.070 –> 00:15:42.610
The way I’m going to track that is by some promo code,

362
00:15:42.710 –> 00:15:44.390
some QR code, some digital initiative

363
00:15:44.390 –> 00:15:47.350
that I can actually prove that I got some return

364
00:15:47.350 –> 00:15:47.950
or investment out.

365
00:15:48.370 –> 00:15:50.410
If you’re looking at like a sports front

366
00:15:50.410 –> 00:15:52.070
and share sponsor, you know,

367
00:15:52.070 –> 00:15:52.870
I think it’s probably a nice way

368
00:15:52.870 –> 00:15:54.370
to segue into the Spotify one.

369
00:15:54.470 –> 00:15:56.090
You know, when we’ve talked about this before,

370
00:15:56.350 –> 00:15:59.410
about when Spotify did the deal with Barcelona

371
00:15:59.410 –> 00:16:01.270
and Barcelona went, we’ve got a billion fans

372
00:16:01.270 –> 00:16:02.730
and Spotify went, show us.

373
00:16:02.770 –> 00:16:03.950
And they went, oh no,

374
00:16:04.030 –> 00:16:05.870
we’ve only got 300,000 fans in our database

375
00:16:05.870 –> 00:16:09.350
and the deal was done for 307 million dollars.

376
00:16:09.350 –> 00:16:10.950
And now they’ve just renewed it, right?

377
00:16:11.010 –> 00:16:12.610
They’ve just renewed it recently.

378
00:16:12.770 –> 00:16:16.970
It’s gone up 64%, so 460 million dollars,

379
00:16:17.050 –> 00:16:18.310
I think, top of my head.

380
00:16:18.510 –> 00:16:19.470
Actually without checking my stats,

381
00:16:19.490 –> 00:16:20.090
that’s quite impressive.

382
00:16:21.610 –> 00:16:23.150
But I know their stadium isn’t finished.

383
00:16:23.250 –> 00:16:24.710
The team’s been in a bit of a flux,

384
00:16:24.870 –> 00:16:27.590
you could argue, in recent years.

385
00:16:27.950 –> 00:16:29.510
But when you look at what they’ve done

386
00:16:29.510 –> 00:16:31.050
in terms of building, you know,

387
00:16:31.050 –> 00:16:32.490
we take the Red Bull example

388
00:16:32.930 –> 00:16:36.230
of building cultural moments around the different,

389
00:16:36.230 –> 00:16:38.610
you know, the Coldplay shirts or the Ed Sheeran shirt

390
00:16:38.610 –> 00:16:41.030
or the Drake shirt and all the collaborations

391
00:16:41.030 –> 00:16:42.870
that they’re doing with these artists.

392
00:16:43.450 –> 00:16:45.490
That’s not, you know, apart from the direct merch,

393
00:16:45.590 –> 00:16:47.350
which you’ll get, you know, for buying a,

394
00:16:47.350 –> 00:16:50.270
you know, a Coldplay shirt, sponsored shirt,

395
00:16:50.730 –> 00:16:52.870
there is, it’s about creating that brand storytelling,

396
00:16:52.970 –> 00:16:54.370
a brand and things like that.

397
00:16:54.370 –> 00:16:55.790
And that’s a longer term deal than,

398
00:16:55.970 –> 00:16:57.390
that’s a 10 year deal

399
00:16:57.390 –> 00:16:59.510
where you can have that longer view on it.

400
00:16:59.690 –> 00:17:03.950
So maybe there is the incremental measurement on that

401
00:17:03.950 –> 00:17:06.369
is reach ultimate subscribers,

402
00:17:06.369 –> 00:17:08.609
but you will see it in the merch sales

403
00:17:08.609 –> 00:17:10.710
that you’ll get in the spiking for those.

404
00:17:12.369 –> 00:17:15.230
And in terms of, is it,

405
00:17:15.390 –> 00:17:16.970
the other thing that I wanna pick up on it

406
00:17:16.970 –> 00:17:19.030
is you just said, it depends on your objectives.

407
00:17:19.410 –> 00:17:22.170
I do wonder as well, if for some sponsors,

408
00:17:22.490 –> 00:17:23.910
it’s also a defense,

409
00:17:24.430 –> 00:17:26.290
because if they are sponsoring,

410
00:17:26.650 –> 00:17:28.710
it means that their competitors can’t.

411
00:17:28.710 –> 00:17:31.110
And I do wonder if some of them that have been

412
00:17:31.110 –> 00:17:34.830
a sponsor for a certain team or race for a long time,

413
00:17:34.830 –> 00:17:36.450
they’re almost locked in,

414
00:17:36.450 –> 00:17:37.790
because the moment they move out,

415
00:17:37.830 –> 00:17:39.810
one of their competitors is then front and center.

416
00:17:40.010 –> 00:17:44.710
So in a way, you know, it’s a defense mechanism as well.

417
00:17:45.250 –> 00:17:47.490
I think that’s a good segue into Hot Take Huddle

418
00:17:47.490 –> 00:17:48.910
because you two are doing it.

419
00:17:49.030 –> 00:17:50.990
Oh no, no.

420
00:17:51.970 –> 00:17:54.010
Right then, so we’re back for the Hot Take Huddle

421
00:17:54.010 –> 00:17:55.610
and I’m not in the hot suite,

422
00:17:56.090 –> 00:17:57.870
hot suite, hot seat this week.

423
00:17:57.870 –> 00:17:59.390
So I’m delighted.

424
00:18:00.210 –> 00:18:02.450
So the question is,

425
00:18:02.450 –> 00:18:05.910
is a sponsor better creating a new league or game,

426
00:18:06.230 –> 00:18:08.830
or are they better off sponsoring a sporting property,

427
00:18:08.910 –> 00:18:10.430
i.e. if they own,

428
00:18:10.510 –> 00:18:11.870
if they create something and own it themselves,

429
00:18:11.930 –> 00:18:13.570
do you think they’ll get more value

430
00:18:13.570 –> 00:18:16.530
than if they are sponsoring something that already exists?

431
00:18:16.790 –> 00:18:20.870
So who’s gonna go for creating a new league or game?

432
00:18:20.970 –> 00:18:22.210
You mean Joe Bloks in the corner?

433
00:18:22.890 –> 00:18:28.110
Joe Bloks, which means you’re living by the status quo.

434
00:18:29.350 –> 00:18:30.990
Right then, so who wants to go first?

435
00:18:31.570 –> 00:18:32.850
Go on, I’ll go, I’ll go.

436
00:18:32.930 –> 00:18:33.830
All right, Lee’s gonna go first.

437
00:18:33.870 –> 00:18:34.550
He’s gonna try now.

438
00:18:34.730 –> 00:18:35.610
I’m gonna try, I’m gonna try.

439
00:18:36.250 –> 00:18:36.950
It’s a hard one to write.

440
00:18:37.290 –> 00:18:38.470
Well, 30 seconds on the clock.

441
00:18:39.330 –> 00:18:40.870
And away we go.

442
00:18:41.510 –> 00:18:43.050
I think you’re better off

443
00:18:43.050 –> 00:18:46.830
going for an existing league or federation or game

444
00:18:47.870 –> 00:18:49.370
because if you’ve got,

445
00:18:49.670 –> 00:18:51.230
in essence, you’ve got guaranteed reach.

446
00:18:51.310 –> 00:18:52.690
If you’re going for something like the Premier League,

447
00:18:52.750 –> 00:18:53.870
you’ve got guaranteed audiences

448
00:18:53.870 –> 00:18:56.230
or like the World Cup, you’re guaranteed to see that.

449
00:18:56.610 –> 00:18:58.370
Also, you can create the best thing in the world

450
00:18:58.370 –> 00:18:59.430
and no one ever sees it.

451
00:18:59.430 –> 00:19:01.190
There’s so many great examples of technology

452
00:19:01.190 –> 00:19:02.990
that’s been done or seen

453
00:19:02.990 –> 00:19:04.890
and it’s not a guaranteed audience.

454
00:19:05.050 –> 00:19:07.070
You know, whilst you might get better ownership,

455
00:19:07.630 –> 00:19:09.110
you’re not guaranteed the reach.

456
00:19:09.370 –> 00:19:11.290
So your exposure is better off for that.

457
00:19:12.890 –> 00:19:13.330
Okay.

458
00:19:14.150 –> 00:19:14.310
Well done.

459
00:19:14.410 –> 00:19:17.050
Will’s alarm’s so angry, he scares me.

460
00:19:17.370 –> 00:19:18.550
You did a lot better than I did last time.

461
00:19:19.510 –> 00:19:21.270
30 seconds is not long, is it?

462
00:19:22.110 –> 00:19:24.090
It is when you don’t know what to say.

463
00:19:25.350 –> 00:19:26.150
For a change yet, yeah?

464
00:19:26.150 –> 00:19:29.870
Rather than joke, you’re creating a new league or game.

465
00:19:30.930 –> 00:19:33.010
30 seconds on the clock, starting now.

466
00:19:33.730 –> 00:19:34.010
Okay.

467
00:19:34.710 –> 00:19:37.270
My thesis is that that sponsorship money

468
00:19:37.270 –> 00:19:39.790
would be far better invested

469
00:19:39.790 –> 00:19:41.550
in creating a new type of game.

470
00:19:42.350 –> 00:19:43.950
For example, let’s think about Dove.

471
00:19:44.450 –> 00:19:46.850
So if Dove created a new,

472
00:19:46.990 –> 00:19:48.690
a board league version of Netball, for example,

473
00:19:48.890 –> 00:19:50.310
they get to own the IP.

474
00:19:50.630 –> 00:19:53.870
They can scale and monetize the IP however they want.

475
00:19:53.930 –> 00:19:55.370
They don’t need to rent the eyeballs

476
00:19:55.370 –> 00:19:58.710
from somebody watching someone else’s team or league.

477
00:19:59.030 –> 00:20:00.910
And then they get to own all of that data.

478
00:20:00.910 –> 00:20:02.590
That will inform their own products.

479
00:20:02.810 –> 00:20:05.810
But it also means that they have a much closer relationship

480
00:20:05.810 –> 00:20:07.070
with their consumers.

481
00:20:11.670 –> 00:20:12.450
I’m going to give that to Jo.

482
00:20:12.650 –> 00:20:13.590
I think you should, yeah.

483
00:20:13.970 –> 00:20:14.310
I agree with Jo.

484
00:20:14.310 –> 00:20:14.910
Just to be clear,

485
00:20:15.090 –> 00:20:16.490
whilst she looked like she was looking at her screen,

486
00:20:16.530 –> 00:20:17.770
she’d not written anything there.

487
00:20:18.130 –> 00:20:18.970
No, no, no.

488
00:20:19.090 –> 00:20:19.830
Because I could see it.

489
00:20:19.890 –> 00:20:21.170
She’s second-screening again.

490
00:20:21.310 –> 00:20:22.150
Yeah, hang on a sec, Jo.

491
00:20:23.170 –> 00:20:25.030
Well, Jo’s the winner in this week’s Hot Takes.

492
00:20:25.030 –> 00:20:26.110
Well, thank you, well done, Jo.

493
00:20:26.130 –> 00:20:26.570
Hi, thank you.

494
00:20:28.730 –> 00:20:31.750
So let’s talk about metrics in sponsorship.

495
00:20:32.410 –> 00:20:33.890
So previous sponsored metrics

496
00:20:33.890 –> 00:20:35.490
would have been based around impressions,

497
00:20:35.930 –> 00:20:37.510
logo appearances, time on screen.

498
00:20:37.830 –> 00:20:39.130
We talked a lot about that earlier, Jo,

499
00:20:39.130 –> 00:20:40.390
in terms of how that’s actually getting measured.

500
00:20:41.030 –> 00:20:43.030
New metrics now, we’re talking about impact,

501
00:20:43.590 –> 00:20:46.530
emotion, action taken, and how that’s all tracked.

502
00:20:47.590 –> 00:20:48.350
Any thoughts on that?

503
00:20:48.730 –> 00:20:51.530
They’re pretty soft metrics, aren’t they?

504
00:20:51.590 –> 00:20:52.230
Yeah. Soft skills.

505
00:20:52.550 –> 00:20:52.770
Yeah.

506
00:20:52.770 –> 00:20:53.550
I’d expect more.

507
00:20:53.550 –> 00:20:56.930
I’d expect, well, I think if you want to,

508
00:20:58.110 –> 00:21:01.410
when I was working for a OTT platform that did sports,

509
00:21:03.930 –> 00:21:06.670
they did the McDonald’s Monopoly campaign,

510
00:21:06.770 –> 00:21:09.110
and that generated a million subscribers

511
00:21:09.110 –> 00:21:10.450
by giving out promo codes.

512
00:21:10.490 –> 00:21:13.270
And that’s trackable because it was a gift code.

513
00:21:13.370 –> 00:21:14.770
You had to enter it in, obviously,

514
00:21:14.870 –> 00:21:17.850
through the McDonald’s Monopoly activation.

515
00:21:18.430 –> 00:21:19.150
And that’s trackable.

516
00:21:19.150 –> 00:21:20.790
And that’s what I think in terms of metrics now.

517
00:21:20.790 –> 00:21:22.670
I think that’s what sponsors go through.

518
00:21:23.270 –> 00:21:25.470
It’s a classic conversion funnel

519
00:21:25.470 –> 00:21:27.150
that no one likes to talk about anymore,

520
00:21:27.290 –> 00:21:30.090
which was, you’ve got this many people view the page,

521
00:21:30.410 –> 00:21:31.790
you have this many people click through,

522
00:21:31.990 –> 00:21:33.370
there’s the drop off rates at each point,

523
00:21:33.390 –> 00:21:37.370
but ultimately, some measurable return at the end of it

524
00:21:37.370 –> 00:21:38.410
that you can actually pick your hat on.

525
00:21:38.410 –> 00:21:40.050
Which is fine, because it’s measurable.

526
00:21:40.650 –> 00:21:43.270
Does, but then it’s measurable at the moment

527
00:21:43.270 –> 00:21:46.750
that that fan downloads the app and subscribes.

528
00:21:46.830 –> 00:21:49.370
But if it’s a free month, how many churn?

529
00:21:49.770 –> 00:21:51.730
So then it’s what happens after that.

530
00:21:51.730 –> 00:21:55.190
We were talking about new metrics are action taken.

531
00:21:55.730 –> 00:21:57.330
Well, action taken is immediate,

532
00:21:57.370 –> 00:21:58.670
but if it’s not sustained,

533
00:21:58.870 –> 00:22:00.890
or if that action is then undone after a month,

534
00:22:00.950 –> 00:22:01.990
because you’ve got to start paying,

535
00:22:03.270 –> 00:22:06.290
does that make your sponsorship effective or not?

536
00:22:06.670 –> 00:22:07.310
I would argue not.

537
00:22:07.550 –> 00:22:09.010
Yeah, I’ll guess that they’ll have a view though

538
00:22:09.010 –> 00:22:10.110
of the ultimate that we know,

539
00:22:10.430 –> 00:22:13.090
or they’ll have a target of how many they want to acquire

540
00:22:13.090 –> 00:22:14.450
from the initial action,

541
00:22:14.610 –> 00:22:16.950
but also a target of what they want to retain

542
00:22:16.950 –> 00:22:17.870
thereafter, right?

543
00:22:17.870 –> 00:22:19.650
And you know, you’re always going to get churned

544
00:22:19.650 –> 00:22:21.030
from that initial act,

545
00:22:21.030 –> 00:22:23.270
but the fact that they manage to drive people into it

546
00:22:23.270 –> 00:22:24.750
is a success as a starting point.

547
00:22:24.930 –> 00:22:26.410
And then again, whatever churns up for that.

548
00:22:26.430 –> 00:22:29.330
So it’s part of this issue with measurement also though.

549
00:22:29.430 –> 00:22:30.950
Because retention’s not on them at that point, right?

550
00:22:31.070 –> 00:22:31.670
Well, this is it.

551
00:22:31.910 –> 00:22:34.130
Lies down lies and statistics, isn’t it?

552
00:22:34.430 –> 00:22:37.070
Because if it makes a good press release.

553
00:22:38.130 –> 00:22:40.370
But also it could just be forming new habits, right?

554
00:22:41.170 –> 00:22:42.870
Because, you know, there’s certain things

555
00:22:42.870 –> 00:22:45.590
that you don’t frequently renew, right?

556
00:22:45.630 –> 00:22:46.950
You know, or you don’t do recently,

557
00:22:47.070 –> 00:22:48.250
or you change your car recently,

558
00:22:48.290 –> 00:22:49.850
but when’s the last time you change your car?

559
00:22:49.870 –> 00:22:50.290
Do you know what I mean?

560
00:22:50.710 –> 00:22:52.390
Every four years, three, four years, yeah.

561
00:22:52.570 –> 00:22:53.070
Yeah, so you see what I mean?

562
00:22:53.250 –> 00:22:55.190
So there’s a difference, I guess it depends,

563
00:22:55.230 –> 00:22:57.190
again, depends on the product and service that you want.

564
00:22:57.390 –> 00:22:58.230
And actually, some of the time,

565
00:22:58.530 –> 00:23:01.850
what you’re actually asking for is measured interaction.

566
00:23:02.210 –> 00:23:02.950
So like, if you want,

567
00:23:03.070 –> 00:23:05.150
if you’re trying to get someone to engage with your

568
00:23:05.150 –> 00:23:07.690
brand, it might just be that like, to your point, Joe,

569
00:23:07.950 –> 00:23:11.190
that they landed on the homepage

570
00:23:11.190 –> 00:23:13.270
and then they kept repeating the website

571
00:23:13.270 –> 00:23:13.910
and that things.

572
00:23:14.210 –> 00:23:15.710
I think actually the best example,

573
00:23:15.770 –> 00:23:16.810
which we haven’t talked about,

574
00:23:16.830 –> 00:23:18.770
which we’ve talked about in a previous podcast,

575
00:23:18.770 –> 00:23:21.990
was the Topgolf activation on Roblox.

576
00:23:22.290 –> 00:23:22.390
Yeah.

577
00:23:22.510 –> 00:23:25.230
I mean, that’s the one that’s funny.

578
00:23:25.670 –> 00:23:27.350
Here’s a question from me as someone

579
00:23:27.350 –> 00:23:30.330
who doesn’t necessarily understand this space.

580
00:23:31.350 –> 00:23:34.070
What is the distinction between sponsorship and partnership

581
00:23:34.070 –> 00:23:35.310
or are they one and the same?

582
00:23:36.030 –> 00:23:37.310
I think they’re one and the same.

583
00:23:37.450 –> 00:23:38.210
I think they used to be,

584
00:23:38.290 –> 00:23:39.830
a sponsorship one used to be,

585
00:23:40.270 –> 00:23:43.110
pay your logo and we’re just gonna give you some money

586
00:23:43.110 –> 00:23:44.530
and everyone was kind of happy

587
00:23:44.530 –> 00:23:45.630
because I’ve done my job.

588
00:23:45.630 –> 00:23:46.290
That makes sense.

589
00:23:46.510 –> 00:23:48.750
So that’s pretty transactional.

590
00:23:48.750 –> 00:23:52.030
More like actually each one is helping each other.

591
00:23:52.190 –> 00:23:52.610
It’s long-term.

592
00:23:53.110 –> 00:23:53.470
More of a relationship.

593
00:23:53.470 –> 00:23:56.610
So that’s what I would say was the Topgolf

594
00:23:56.610 –> 00:23:58.270
and RNA partnership.

595
00:23:58.290 –> 00:24:00.150
In theory all sponsorships should be partnerships.

596
00:24:02.270 –> 00:24:04.890
So, yes, semantics aside,

597
00:24:05.110 –> 00:24:07.890
that was one that worked really well for both partners

598
00:24:07.890 –> 00:24:09.970
because one wanted foot traffic

599
00:24:09.970 –> 00:24:13.230
and the other one wanted to increase participation

600
00:24:13.230 –> 00:24:16.690
and understanding of the mechanics of golf

601
00:24:16.690 –> 00:24:19.110
and both hit the mark for both.

602
00:24:19.450 –> 00:24:22.350
So actually, I mean, partnership is the better way

603
00:24:22.350 –> 00:24:23.010
to describe it then

604
00:24:23.010 –> 00:24:25.750
because that implies it’s a more equal relationship

605
00:24:25.750 –> 00:24:27.410
than one just transacting with another

606
00:24:27.410 –> 00:24:29.510
and it might be a little bit out of balance.

607
00:24:30.090 –> 00:24:30.570
So what did it get you?

608
00:24:31.370 –> 00:24:33.050
So Relometrics and Sponsor Plus

609
00:24:33.050 –> 00:24:34.130
have created a new metric

610
00:24:34.130 –> 00:24:36.170
that’s being used in the NHL now.

611
00:24:37.410 –> 00:24:39.890
So an asset to do impact scoring, right?

612
00:24:39.970 –> 00:24:41.510
So based on those, you haven’t perhaps said earlier,

613
00:24:41.870 –> 00:24:43.330
and there’s five key qualities for that.

614
00:24:43.510 –> 00:24:45.470
So recall, it’s a sponsor logo and memorable.

615
00:24:45.470 –> 00:24:48.230
So it’s kind of the stuff that we would have had already.

616
00:24:48.230 –> 00:24:49.130
Like, do you see it?

617
00:24:49.170 –> 00:24:50.570
Can you remember it?

618
00:24:51.410 –> 00:24:53.490
When it’s whizzing by at 120 miles an hour

619
00:24:53.490 –> 00:24:54.990
on a wheel arch.

620
00:24:55.390 –> 00:24:55.830
Annoyance.

621
00:24:55.890 –> 00:24:58.150
Is the logo signage distracting you

622
00:24:58.150 –> 00:25:00.010
from your enjoyment of that particular sport?

623
00:25:00.270 –> 00:25:01.170
Oh, that’s interesting.

624
00:25:01.910 –> 00:25:02.130
Action.

625
00:25:02.250 –> 00:25:04.210
Does the logo have the ability to drive an action?

626
00:25:04.410 –> 00:25:05.470
Why is it all about logos?

627
00:25:06.070 –> 00:25:06.230
Still.

628
00:25:06.490 –> 00:25:09.070
I mean, I think just logo, like the brand.

629
00:25:09.310 –> 00:25:10.550
Is that what sponsorship is?

630
00:25:10.590 –> 00:25:11.210
Just logos?

631
00:25:11.270 –> 00:25:13.010
Yeah, but I think that’s just where you view it.

632
00:25:13.010 –> 00:25:15.430
It’s a term they call it in the industry, Joe.

633
00:25:15.730 –> 00:25:15.950
Purchase.

634
00:25:16.530 –> 00:25:16.930
Purchase.

635
00:25:17.230 –> 00:25:18.370
Does the particular activation,

636
00:25:18.390 –> 00:25:19.670
just because I hate you, you hate the word logo,

637
00:25:20.190 –> 00:25:22.070
have the ability to drive consideration?

638
00:25:24.290 –> 00:25:25.090
And favorability.

639
00:25:25.270 –> 00:25:27.710
Does the asset have the ability to drive preference?

640
00:25:29.390 –> 00:25:29.550
Interesting.

641
00:25:29.590 –> 00:25:30.550
I guess Coca-Cola or Pepsi might.

642
00:25:30.550 –> 00:25:31.750
So some of that is a bit of words.

643
00:25:31.750 –> 00:25:33.570
If you like Pepsi, well, you’d switch to Coke.

644
00:25:33.590 –> 00:25:34.250
Oh, gosh.

645
00:25:34.870 –> 00:25:37.990
By 0.5, it was word salad territory for us all.

646
00:25:38.010 –> 00:25:39.910
It was definitely, that’s definitely an agency.

647
00:25:39.990 –> 00:25:41.670
Yeah, that’s an agency metric that’s been-

648
00:25:41.670 –> 00:25:44.390
0.5 is word salad, so you can park that.

649
00:25:45.750 –> 00:25:49.570
But recall annoyance, action, purchase, favorability.

650
00:25:50.250 –> 00:25:51.630
I mean, favorability is what I feel like they just want to find.

651
00:25:51.630 –> 00:25:53.230
Annoyance is an interesting one.

652
00:25:53.810 –> 00:25:55.950
Because normally you go for all positive

653
00:25:55.950 –> 00:25:58.270
when you’re trying to measure something, don’t you?

654
00:25:58.390 –> 00:26:02.190
But it’s just as interesting to measure negatives

655
00:26:02.190 –> 00:26:05.510
because that can really highlight the positive side of things.

656
00:26:05.830 –> 00:26:07.430
Is the logo or signage distracting?

657
00:26:07.690 –> 00:26:09.230
I come back to some of the things,

658
00:26:09.230 –> 00:26:12.190
the digital logos that are put onto the field of play.

659
00:26:12.210 –> 00:26:13.390
I was just about to say the same thing.

660
00:26:13.550 –> 00:26:14.890
Jeez, they are so annoying.

661
00:26:15.270 –> 00:26:17.230
I see them first, but I find

662
00:26:17.230 –> 00:26:18.690
that within a relatively short space of time,

663
00:26:18.830 –> 00:26:19.610
I’ve switched off from it.

664
00:26:20.510 –> 00:26:21.830
But have you switched off from the logo

665
00:26:21.830 –> 00:26:23.110
or have you switched off from the play?

666
00:26:23.130 –> 00:26:23.750
I was from the logo.

667
00:26:24.230 –> 00:26:25.730
Like I tend to like, yeah.

668
00:26:25.830 –> 00:26:27.030
It’s got a white noise almost,

669
00:26:27.030 –> 00:26:27.830
you just kind of look at it now.

670
00:26:27.850 –> 00:26:29.690
Yeah, I almost get used to the switch off from it.

671
00:26:29.930 –> 00:26:31.030
What I don’t get switched off from

672
00:26:31.030 –> 00:26:32.870
is when I’m seeing like LED perimeter now where,

673
00:26:32.910 –> 00:26:34.510
well, ultimately, they’re advertising them,

674
00:26:34.510 –> 00:26:35.250
but they’re all partners.

675
00:26:36.250 –> 00:26:39.130
When you see two or three levels of it now,

676
00:26:39.130 –> 00:26:40.730
it’s like, no.

677
00:26:41.090 –> 00:26:41.630
So blinding, yeah, yeah.

678
00:26:41.630 –> 00:26:43.370
And that, it’s too much, like.

679
00:26:43.950 –> 00:26:47.270
Honestly, just thinking about your stats,

680
00:26:47.510 –> 00:26:48.870
your new measurements there.

681
00:26:49.370 –> 00:26:49.590
It’s not mine.

682
00:26:50.270 –> 00:26:52.090
Yeah, you Ed, specifically you.

683
00:26:52.770 –> 00:26:54.550
They’re just really bad sold metrics.

684
00:26:54.910 –> 00:26:55.510
Of course they are.

685
00:26:55.750 –> 00:26:56.890
I know, I’m just reading them again.

686
00:26:57.130 –> 00:26:58.210
Action, point three.

687
00:26:58.410 –> 00:27:01.070
Does the logo have the ability to drive action?

688
00:27:01.390 –> 00:27:01.770
What?

689
00:27:02.150 –> 00:27:03.950
It’s like, did you buy something basically?

690
00:27:04.690 –> 00:27:07.510
Surely that was in marketing books from 25 years ago.

691
00:27:07.630 –> 00:27:08.890
But it’s like, did you see it?

692
00:27:08.890 –> 00:27:09.810
Did it piss you off?

693
00:27:09.930 –> 00:27:10.730
Did you buy anything?

694
00:27:11.070 –> 00:27:12.030
I think the one that.

695
00:27:12.030 –> 00:27:12.930
Did it make you do anything different?

696
00:27:12.930 –> 00:27:15.330
Okay, we’ve just invented our own metrics.

697
00:27:15.750 –> 00:27:17.210
Sentimental analysis is an interesting one

698
00:27:17.210 –> 00:27:19.610
because I think that is, that’s probably a newer,

699
00:27:19.810 –> 00:27:21.950
it is probably a newer metric, which is like,

700
00:27:22.110 –> 00:27:23.470
how do you, what do you feel

701
00:27:23.470 –> 00:27:24.370
about the brand is social brand.

702
00:27:24.450 –> 00:27:26.250
People try and do that now, but I think they are now,

703
00:27:26.410 –> 00:27:28.490
there are ways that you can try and quantify this more,

704
00:27:28.930 –> 00:27:30.810
especially with things like social media

705
00:27:30.810 –> 00:27:32.590
and the way that you can track likes.

706
00:27:32.730 –> 00:27:34.350
Now likes is obviously a vanity metric,

707
00:27:34.610 –> 00:27:36.810
but you can definitely see, especially with AI now,

708
00:27:36.810 –> 00:27:38.630
across like Twitter, X or Twitter,

709
00:27:38.890 –> 00:27:40.930
you can see what people are saying about a brand.

710
00:27:40.970 –> 00:27:43.870
So if you do an activation or an advert

711
00:27:43.870 –> 00:27:46.390
and it doesn’t resonate, you’re gonna know very quickly,

712
00:27:46.390 –> 00:27:47.750
which gives you that sort of sentiment.

713
00:27:47.770 –> 00:27:49.630
So it’s gonna see how do people feel.

714
00:27:50.330 –> 00:27:51.350
That’s an interesting one.

715
00:27:51.610 –> 00:27:53.230
Does that deliver you ultimate ROI

716
00:27:53.710 –> 00:27:55.050
as it tells you what to do?

717
00:27:55.130 –> 00:27:56.570
Tells you what to keep doing more of,

718
00:27:56.570 –> 00:27:57.610
but I don’t know.

719
00:27:58.670 –> 00:27:59.550
I think it’s.

720
00:28:00.250 –> 00:28:00.590
I think you’re right about ROI.

721
00:28:00.590 –> 00:28:02.810
Are we essentially saying it’s not a science

722
00:28:02.810 –> 00:28:05.830
and we’re never gonna be able to measure it

723
00:28:05.830 –> 00:28:06.810
truly effectively,

724
00:28:07.070 –> 00:28:09.610
which means that fuzzy ROI will ever be fuzzy.

725
00:28:09.850 –> 00:28:13.230
I think with any, like in the context of sentiment analysis,

726
00:28:13.390 –> 00:28:14.010
right, it’s kind of like, all right,

727
00:28:14.030 –> 00:28:14.810
how’s that being tracked?

728
00:28:14.910 –> 00:28:17.810
How’s that being appended some way

729
00:28:17.810 –> 00:28:19.350
to understand how a certain,

730
00:28:19.810 –> 00:28:21.310
it’s gonna be really, really hard, right,

731
00:28:21.310 –> 00:28:22.710
to do that at an individual level,

732
00:28:22.710 –> 00:28:23.770
but at least the demographic,

733
00:28:23.810 –> 00:28:25.450
like understanding what that sentiment is

734
00:28:25.450 –> 00:28:26.950
and how you’re appending that demographic

735
00:28:26.950 –> 00:28:29.430
to understand then how they respond

736
00:28:29.430 –> 00:28:32.790
to your marketing message through that partnership.

737
00:28:33.350 –> 00:28:35.810
Look, we’re doing an anonymous fan survey at the moment

738
00:28:35.810 –> 00:28:37.450
and we’re trying to understand that from rights holders

739
00:28:37.450 –> 00:28:38.790
in terms of how are you tracking

740
00:28:38.790 –> 00:28:40.110
all of these things that are going on,

741
00:28:40.110 –> 00:28:41.670
whether it’s for yourself

742
00:28:41.670 –> 00:28:42.870
or whether it’s for the brands

743
00:28:42.870 –> 00:28:45.030
that ultimately sponsor what you’re doing.

744
00:28:45.430 –> 00:28:46.650
There’s got to be some kind,

745
00:28:46.870 –> 00:28:48.530
it’s pointless doing these things in isolation, right,

746
00:28:48.530 –> 00:28:51.110
if you’re not then appending it to your actual audience.

747
00:28:51.510 –> 00:28:52.730
But often these things happen like that

748
00:28:52.730 –> 00:28:53.410
and they’re in silos.

749
00:28:53.490 –> 00:28:54.230
Do you think it’s gonna,

750
00:28:54.250 –> 00:28:55.750
do you, I mean, everyone sit,

751
00:28:55.990 –> 00:28:58.570
it’s interesting because you’ve talked about before

752
00:28:58.570 –> 00:29:00.110
about everyone leaders saying,

753
00:29:00.710 –> 00:29:02.470
it’s a worrying time for the sponsorship market.

754
00:29:02.470 –> 00:29:04.590
We’ve just read a report that says market,

755
00:29:04.990 –> 00:29:06.210
the value is gonna double.

756
00:29:06.590 –> 00:29:08.030
Actually, what if it doesn’t?

757
00:29:08.370 –> 00:29:10.510
Like, you know, like money’s getting more expensive,

758
00:29:11.290 –> 00:29:12.150
people’s, you know,

759
00:29:12.270 –> 00:29:14.150
somebody’s gonna have to give, you know, somewhere.

760
00:29:14.590 –> 00:29:17.570
And actually these big sort of headline sponsorships

761
00:29:17.570 –> 00:29:20.430
that which in essence what we’re talking about,

762
00:29:20.830 –> 00:29:22.750
once they’re, they could all fall away.

763
00:29:22.770 –> 00:29:24.310
And actually what’s gonna happen is

764
00:29:24.310 –> 00:29:25.650
unless you have that sort of

765
00:29:25.650 –> 00:29:26.950
hyper personalized targeted brand,

766
00:29:26.970 –> 00:29:31.010
which actually is so directly associated with your sport.

767
00:29:31.090 –> 00:29:31.930
So let’s say it’s football

768
00:29:31.930 –> 00:29:33.510
and you want to buy a football kit

769
00:29:33.510 –> 00:29:35.750
or it’s associated to the athletes.

770
00:29:35.770 –> 00:29:38.730
So it’s a makeup brand that, you know, to a lone man.

771
00:29:39.430 –> 00:29:40.530
Those are the things that are gonna stick,

772
00:29:40.530 –> 00:29:42.550
but everything else is kind of like

773
00:29:42.550 –> 00:29:44.830
team viewer type sponsorships, you know,

774
00:29:44.930 –> 00:29:46.470
or that don’t really resonate,

775
00:29:46.590 –> 00:29:48.370
that don’t really have a target audience

776
00:29:48.370 –> 00:29:49.370
with your fans.

777
00:29:50.010 –> 00:29:51.310
Isn’t that money just gonna go away?

778
00:29:52.210 –> 00:29:53.670
You don’t want to be better just sticking a QR code

779
00:29:53.670 –> 00:29:54.650
on front of the football shirts.

780
00:29:55.250 –> 00:29:55.310
You shouldn’t.

781
00:29:57.390 –> 00:29:58.190
You should do.

782
00:29:58.190 –> 00:29:59.590
Do you know how much activation you get

783
00:29:59.590 –> 00:30:00.270
for just putting a QR code.

784
00:30:00.270 –> 00:30:01.650
I do wonder as well,

785
00:30:01.810 –> 00:30:03.670
how much of the sponsorship money is

786
00:30:03.670 –> 00:30:05.510
just because they wouldn’t know what else to do with it.

787
00:30:05.630 –> 00:30:06.730
Well, they have to get it off their PNL.

788
00:30:06.970 –> 00:30:08.010
Yeah, they have to spend it somewhere.

789
00:30:08.370 –> 00:30:09.350
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

790
00:30:10.550 –> 00:30:11.230
Well, that’s deep.

791
00:30:11.290 –> 00:30:12.910
I know, it’s profound.

792
00:30:13.250 –> 00:30:13.590
On that note.

793
00:30:13.770 –> 00:30:14.950
They could give it to us.

794
00:30:15.130 –> 00:30:15.950
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

795
00:30:15.950 –> 00:30:17.790
And we’ll create you a podcast.

796
00:30:18.250 –> 00:30:19.250
Not sure we could track it though.

797
00:30:22.230 –> 00:30:22.530
Cool.

798
00:30:23.330 –> 00:30:27.830
So, any thoughts to wrap up today’s episode?

799
00:30:28.350 –> 00:30:29.930
I mean, word salad aside,

800
00:30:29.930 –> 00:30:31.870
at least somebody is having a go

801
00:30:31.870 –> 00:30:35.730
at trying to figure out how you measure the ROI on this

802
00:30:35.730 –> 00:30:38.950
given that most people don’t seem to know what it is.

803
00:30:39.330 –> 00:30:40.770
I like the annoyance one, yeah.

804
00:30:41.110 –> 00:30:44.610
I think it’s worth looking at the negatives side

805
00:30:44.610 –> 00:30:45.610
as well as the positive.

806
00:30:46.150 –> 00:30:48.310
I’m still a little bit confused

807
00:30:48.310 –> 00:30:51.650
as to what sponsorship is,

808
00:30:51.710 –> 00:30:53.370
if it’s increasing at such a rate

809
00:30:54.150 –> 00:30:55.610
and marketeers are saying,

810
00:30:55.690 –> 00:30:57.610
yes, we’re gonna increase our investment in sponsorship.

811
00:30:57.610 –> 00:31:01.350
If they don’t know what result it’s delivering,

812
00:31:01.950 –> 00:31:03.470
why would you be throwing more money at it?

813
00:31:03.690 –> 00:31:07.010
What’s the incentive for rights holders

814
00:31:07.010 –> 00:31:09.130
to be better at activating sponsorships

815
00:31:09.130 –> 00:31:10.770
if they’re being told that it’s gonna double

816
00:31:10.770 –> 00:31:12.010
in the next however many years?

817
00:31:12.010 –> 00:31:12.510
Yeah, exactly.

818
00:31:12.730 –> 00:31:14.950
When they’re not doing a great job of not activating it.

819
00:31:15.530 –> 00:31:17.510
There’s no motivation to improve.

820
00:31:17.670 –> 00:31:19.670
I think this is a classic example

821
00:31:19.670 –> 00:31:22.030
of what everyone said about the sports media rights deals,

822
00:31:22.210 –> 00:31:23.330
that they’re just gonna keep going up

823
00:31:23.330 –> 00:31:24.150
and keep going up.

824
00:31:24.490 –> 00:31:25.950
And the hope that it just works, everyone says it.

825
00:31:25.950 –> 00:31:27.330
I hope they will, because no one knows how,

826
00:31:27.370 –> 00:31:29.190
it’s one of those things, it’s an illusion, right?

827
00:31:29.190 –> 00:31:30.330
No one knows the value of it.

828
00:31:30.690 –> 00:31:32.050
No one knows how to do anything of it.

829
00:31:32.190 –> 00:31:33.850
And I think the things that are gonna resonate

830
00:31:33.850 –> 00:31:35.130
are when people do it properly,

831
00:31:35.370 –> 00:31:36.210
people who do it well.

832
00:31:36.370 –> 00:31:37.930
Like the example you gave about the marathon

833
00:31:37.930 –> 00:31:39.990
and where you get those closer collaborations

834
00:31:40.630 –> 00:31:42.410
between athletes and who’ve got an audience

835
00:31:42.410 –> 00:31:43.390
and they know it’s there,

836
00:31:43.450 –> 00:31:44.850
it’s on brand with them,

837
00:31:45.210 –> 00:31:46.090
then I think they’re doing that.

838
00:31:46.170 –> 00:31:47.510
The only thing I’d caveat with that was saying,

839
00:31:48.670 –> 00:31:50.130
you need to, there’s way,

840
00:31:50.530 –> 00:31:51.430
we live in a digital world

841
00:31:51.430 –> 00:31:54.170
where everyone could scan a QR code or enter a GIF code.

842
00:31:54.170 –> 00:31:57.070
You need to make sure that as much as possible,

843
00:31:57.070 –> 00:31:58.170
you’re tracking this,

844
00:31:58.190 –> 00:31:59.170
because I think that’s it.

845
00:31:59.270 –> 00:32:00.670
Even if you can’t get it now,

846
00:32:00.670 –> 00:32:02.410
you’ll build up a database of knowledge

847
00:32:02.410 –> 00:32:04.510
that you can shove some AI over the top of it

848
00:32:04.510 –> 00:32:06.890
and over spot those gaps in the market.

849
00:32:08.070 –> 00:32:09.850
Well, I mean, I see,

850
00:32:09.850 –> 00:32:11.770
you see a lot of activations physically

851
00:32:11.770 –> 00:32:13.970
in and around sporting venues.

852
00:32:14.030 –> 00:32:15.210
What I don’t see a lot of is

853
00:32:15.210 –> 00:32:16.710
how that’s been activated digitally

854
00:32:16.710 –> 00:32:18.610
around digital video and content.

855
00:32:19.290 –> 00:32:21.910
Yeah, you see, so I’m always amazed

856
00:32:22.910 –> 00:32:25.330
at the relatively few activations I see

857
00:32:25.330 –> 00:32:28.610
around game days, match days with brands

858
00:32:28.610 –> 00:32:30.870
in terms of whoever they’re involved with.

859
00:32:30.950 –> 00:32:32.410
I just don’t see a great deal of it.

860
00:32:32.410 –> 00:32:34.730
Certainly not on my social timelines or on YouTube.

861
00:32:35.270 –> 00:32:36.330
I think there needs to be a lot more of that.

862
00:32:36.330 –> 00:32:38.030
I don’t think that gets considered nearly enough,

863
00:32:38.050 –> 00:32:39.410
because I think that for me is the one way

864
00:32:39.410 –> 00:32:40.910
that you could just do an instant,

865
00:32:41.150 –> 00:32:42.510
I’ve seen it react to it, do something,

866
00:32:42.530 –> 00:32:43.870
because it’s easy to link through

867
00:32:43.870 –> 00:32:46.430
to somewhere else and track it.

868
00:32:47.030 –> 00:32:48.170
Cool, and on that bombs, yeah.

869
00:32:48.290 –> 00:32:50.250
And you can also sponsor the attention shift.

870
00:32:50.790 –> 00:32:52.250
We will measure our ROI.

871
00:32:52.350 –> 00:32:53.730
We’ll put some QR codes or something.

872
00:32:53.910 –> 00:32:54.750
Yeah, we’ll go with that.

873
00:32:55.230 –> 00:32:56.350
With our new RELLO metrics.

874
00:32:57.350 –> 00:32:58.690
Thank you for tuning in.

875
00:32:58.890 –> 00:32:59.930
You’ve been Ed Abbotts.

876
00:32:59.930 –> 00:33:01.530
I’ve been Jo Redford.

877
00:33:01.730 –> 00:33:02.970
Apparently I’m Lee Rapport.

878
00:33:04.150 –> 00:33:06.030
Well, yeah, if you like to like and subscribe,

879
00:33:06.110 –> 00:33:07.770
or if you’ve got any sponsorship inquiries,

880
00:33:07.930 –> 00:33:11.230
please email us at helloattheattentionshift.media.

881
00:33:11.350 –> 00:33:13.410
That’s helloattheattentionshift.media.

882
00:33:16.680 –> 00:33:18.720
That’s it for this episode of The Attention Shift.

883
00:33:18.900 –> 00:33:21.300
Remember to like and subscribe and listen in next time.

884
00:33:21.300 –> 00:33:22.860
And do let us know what you think.

885
00:33:23.100 –> 00:33:26.420
Email us at hello@attentionshift.media.

886
00:33:26.620 –> 00:33:29.440
So that’s hello@attentionshift.media.